The Secret Beyond Matter

Mr. Adnan Oktar's answers to the questions of Kamil Imran, website, United Kingdom, September 2009

KAMIL IMRAN:In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Salaamu Aleykum to my beloved Harun Yahya. Thank you for agreeing to do this interview with me, it’s an honour and a great pleasure, and I hope one day I can interview you in person, InshAllah. I want you to know that if I was interviewing you in person I would love to embrace you.

ADNAN OKTAR:Aleykumselam. And I lovingly embrace you and all my Muslim brothers with love. It is a great pleasure, and a delightful blessing from Allah to meet and talk with you, and through you to my Muslim brothers, insha’Allah.

KAMIL IMRAN:I would like to start with the subject of the true nature of matter. I want to thank you for your vast research on the Secret Beyond Matter. It has been amazing and miraculous for me to read. For example, for me, it explains how only the person on his death bed sees the Angel of Death, how only Our Beloved Prophet (Pbuh) could see the Angel Jibrail (except when he came as a Bedouin, etc), how he was able to describe the Signs of the Last Times so clearly, since Allah had shown him images of those end times, how he made the Night Journey (Miraj) in such a short time (that when he came back his sleeping area was still warm), and why we can never see Allah in this world, since we are in the sphere of perceptions created by Him. Do you agree with this? As you have said in your works, you, me, everyone, everything, right down to our brains is an image, a perception shown to us by Allah, to our souls. Would it be right then to think that the soul is not an image, a perception, but a different entity, in other words is the soul something different that sees these images?

ADNAN OKTAR:This subject you speak of, the secret behind matter in other words, refers to a most important truth. Matter does exist on the outside, but we can never have direct experience of the original of matter, its form on the outside. Everything we see, know, hear or touch, we know in the form of electric signals transmitted to a tiny point in our brains. It is amazing, a miracle from Allah, how we see the entire universe in a minute space no bigger than a lentil. No matter what we do, we can never have direct experience of the world on the outside. We only see the world inside our brains. We eat, travel around and talk in the world in our brains.  We watch the television in our brains, and listen to music in our brains and read books and newspapers in our brains. We see the mountains, seas, roads, houses, blocks of flats, planes, cars, animals, plants, our families and in short everything in a tiny point in our brains. For example, when we look at a bird gliding through the air, we can never see the original of that bird; all we see consists of an image that forms in the back of our brain.  This is a technical fact, information taught right from school. When we look at that bird, the light from it passes through the lens in the front of the eye and reflects an image on the back of the eye. Images falling on the retina is converted into an electric current by millions of nerve endings and forwarded to the cortex responsible for sight in our brains. Our brains then convert these signals into three-dimensional, meaningful images, and thus we perceive the bird. What this means is that we can never have direct experience of this bird, and we only know it in the form of electric signals converted into images in the brain.

As you know, under normal circumstances the inside of our brains is pitch-black. Yet we still see our surroundings as very clear, vivid and bright. In the same way, we hear all sounds even though there is no sound in our brains. So is it our eyes that make this possible? Of course, not. Eyes, ears and the brain are merely pieces of flesh made up of protein and fat molecules and atoms. These pieces of flesh obviously cannot see the images we see. Neither can these pieces of flesh hear sounds. Allah causes us to perceive everything we see and hear in our souls. The soul is the entity that sees a bright world inside the darkness of the brain, that hears all sound within the silence inside the brain, and that feels such emotions as love, affection, joy, enthusiasm and excitement.

KAMIL IMRAN:Again, when we take into account the Secret Beyond Matter, what do you think Déjà vu is?

ADNAN OKTAR:We all live the destiny that Allah has ordained for us beforehand. Everything a person will experience throughout his life, and his death and everything is all over and done with the moment he is even born. It is impossible to take back or alter anything in this destiny appointed for us by Allah. We see the destiny ordained for us by Allah at the time ordained by Allah. The past and future are both over and done with, but Allah causes us to experience everything that befalls us as if it is happening at that moment.  For example, we have already conducted this interview. We had already conducted it before the people who would read these lines were even born, before their parents or grandparents were even born. Your questions and my answers were all set out in the sight of Allah before we were even born.

But we perceive it as if it is happening now. For example, we are currently striving to establish the Turkish-Islamic Union. But the Turkish-Islamic Union has already been founded in destiny. Hazrat Mahdi (as) has come and the Prophet Jesus (as) has returned, and they have together established the world rule of Islamic moral values. Paradise and Hell exist at this moment in the sight of Allah. Those bound for Paradise have already gone there, and those bound for Hell are in Hell. Those in whose destinies Paradise is written are already walking through the Garden. But since we are entities subjected to testing, we only have experience of what we are made to experience in the life of this world, or, to put it another way, with the present moment. But Allah from time to time creates events that will remind people of destiny, in order for them to reflect on the fact of destiny or to reinforce their trust in Him. Allah shows us a destiny that has already been worked out. In other words, something to help us better understand that destiny.

KAMIL IMRAN:Without getting too personal, can you give us an example from your struggles of when you put your trust in Allah and then saw His help manifested in your affairs, for the benefit of our readers, (a lot of people search the subject Trust of Allah when coming to the website

ADNAN OKTAR:Every event that on the surface appears to be a difficulty is in fact filled with the mercy of Allah. Difficulty, trouble and suffering are the food of the soul. Through them, the soul is deepened and perfected. Difficulty is something that must be regarded as normal in a Muslim’s daily life. As you know, all the prophets, and the Companions and Muslims possessed of taqwa have encountered many troubles and much suffering on Allah’s path. But there is abundance, and beauty and compassion in suffering. Allah’s help is with those who suffer. I take enormous pleasure from suffering, from striving on the path of Allah. Suffering is the Sunna of the prophets. Alhamdulillah, thanks be to Allah that I have encountered many troubles in my struggle on Allah’s path, and I am still encountering them, and my soul is delighted by it.

I was arrested for saying, "I am of the Turkish Nation and the Tribe of Ibrahim" and was sent to a mental hospital. The ward they put me in was the one with the most seriously ill people in, the ones unfit to stand trial. It was somewhere no normal person could bear for even 5 minutes. They kept my feet chained for around 40 days, but when they put those chains on I gave thanks to Allah, I was really pleased. But it was a short chain, and I asked them to extend it as it made praying difficult. A long time later they made it longer by adding another section. Most of the patients wandered around naked. They were unaware of their natural needs. They cried and shrieked, rolled around on the floor and constantly banged their heads on the walls. The people there were generally ones who had killed. They killed seven of their fellow patients during my time there. But although they were seriously ill, they were all allowed out into the garden. Only I was not allowed out into the garden. I was only permitted to see my mother. I was not even allowed to use the telephone. A while after that, the chief physician even banned me from talking to the interns. But of course I knew that Allah had created all these things. These things were an excellent opportunity for me to show my love for and devotion to Allah. The military hospital then overturned that report that had been issued regarding me and said there was no question of my having any kind of mental illness, as had been alleged. But of course materialist, Darwinist circles for years used the fact I had been held in a mental hospital as a propaganda tool against me. But no matter what they did, they were unable to stop the spread of my service. The number of my colleagues and of those supporting me and my ideas increased many times over during that period. By Allah’s leave, just things increase my enthusiasm and strengthen me many times over. They can attack me as much as they want, it makes no difference. I will persist in my intellectual struggle on Allah’s path with all my strength until Allah takes my soul back from me, insha’Allah.
KAMIL IMRAN:I can see from your works that Unity among Muslims is very important to you, as it should be for all Muslims, I'm really pleased and thankful to Allah that you are striving to bring unity to the Muslim world; it is a subject that is important to me, too. I become very concerned when some Muslims quarrel with each other and even go as far as accusing each other of Kufr (Disbelief) and making judgements on each other’s Aqida. What is your advice on how we can do this (bring unity about)?

ADNAN OKTAR:I constantly reiterate this in my words and writings; The Turkish-Islamic Union must be made a reality as a matter of urgency. Otherwise the present troubles will never come to an end. What Muslims must do under the present difficult circumstances is to resort to all legal avenues, as a form of prayer, to have the Turkish-Islamic Union established, and to call on all authorized officials to bring it about. Allah’s title of Mujib, meaning He Who heeds the wishes of those who beseech Him, will insha’Allah be manifested as a response to that prayer and, through this union, a climate of peace, love and security will rule the whole world, not just the world of Islam. By Allah’s leave, the corruption, moral degeneration and climate of insecurity will all be eliminated. We can better see what an urgent matter the foundation of the Turkish-Islamic Union truly is by thinking of the Muslims being oppressed all over the world, the innocent women and children waiting for our help in Afghanistan, Palestine and Iraq, and all our needy brothers.

This union is of course a union, a union of fervor. My Muslim brothers must love, protect and support one another. There can be no division among Muslims. Moreover, it is totally unfitting for Muslims to fall out. Almighty Allah tells us to cling tightly to Allah’s rope and to stick together and not be fragmented. There are many verses in the Qur’an about Muslims being united. This is something obligatory. My Muslim brothers may belong to different schools. But we will still love them. For example, I am a member of the Sunni school. I am a Hanafi. But I regard my Shiite brothers as of taqwa and most perfect. Each one is a pure Muslim. And that also goes for my Wahabbist brothers, who have great taqwa and are very devout and live by the religion in the finest manner. We are like the students in a school. We all serve the same purpose. Because we have the same Allah and the same Book. We believe in the same prophets and face the same kibbla. There is merely competition in terms of taqwa. We all compete in taqwa. For Muslims to be distanced from one another because of school differences is total corruption. It is something no sincere Muslim would ever do. We must strongly avoid it. It is a stratagem of the freemasons and atheist zionists. We must not fall into that trap. The only way to avoid it is to love one another and regard one another with affection and compassion.

KAMIL IMRAN:Although I don't reside in Pakistan, I have seen that the Pakistanis have great love for you and appreciate your works very much. And from my experience I have seen that they understand your works even better than many Muslims that were born and reside in the UK. But not many of your books have been translated into Urdu (and I understand it can be a tough task to translate into so many languages); are there any plans or intentions to accelerate this translation into Urdu?

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha’Allah, the approval of Allah on all my brothers. I love them very much, too. Work on translation into Urdu is continuing. Masha’Allah, my colleagues tell me that the greatest offers of voluntary translation work come from Pakistan. As you know, the first volume of the Atlas of Creation has also been translated into Urdu. They can read this work free of charge on our web site. But they can also find other of my works translated into Urdu on this site. Insha’Allah, all my works will eventually be available to my Pakistani brothers.

KAMIL IMRAN: Your refutation of Darwinism has been simply ‘miraculous‘, and thank you for showing us all those fossils via the Atlas which show that no evolution happened. It’s astonishing, and words cannot express how the world has been deceived until now. I consider it a great crime against humanity; can we ever trust the scientific community again, or should we be wary of them?

ADNAN OKTAR: Darwinism is one of the greatest frauds in the history of science. People in the future will look back in amazement and astonishment at how they believed in this nonsense. Satan literally uses Darwinism to mock people, by convincing them of a myth.  But we have put an end to that stratagem, insha’Allah. We have revealed the fossils that Allah has placed under the earth, literally like a picture. Darwinists kept these fossils carefully hidden away for 150 years. There are more than 250 million fossils that prove Creation. I therefore issued Darwinists a challenge. “If you have even a single transitional form fossil, bring it out” I said. Months have gone by, without a sound. There cannot be a sound because there are no such fossils. The revelation of that fact dealt a fatal blow to Darwinism. Darwinists can no longer deceive anyone. By Allah’s leave, satan’s stratagem has been neutralized.  There is no need to avoid scientific circles, not if they are honest and genuine. But if they use science as a tool for materialist preconceptions, if they try to deceive people with Darwinist myths and espouse evolution through frauds, then the public will give them the appropriate response and show them, with full scientific evidence, that they are not speaking the truth. The religion encourages scientific research, and scientific research conducted in the light of the truths revealed by the religion produces very quick and certain results. Because the religion is the only source giving the most certain and accurate answer to the question of how life and the universe came into being. Science can only achieve its true purpose in the quickest possible time if it is properly directed. It is of course unacceptable to distort science or use it as a tool for one’s own opinions. Such behavior is unbecoming of any scientist, and must not be engaged in. It is also wrong to refer to people who commit that error as scientists. Scientists must be honest, and seek only the truth.

KAMIL IMRAN:If I recall rightly, you said in an interview that there are plans for more volumes of the Atlas, is that still so, and if so how many more volumes can we expect?

ADNAN OKTAR:Yes, the Atlas of Creation will initially consist of seven volumes. The fourth volume is currently ready for printing. Once those seven volumes are finished, I am thinking of doing another seven. There is no limit to my books, as you know. I recognize no bounds to my encyclopedias. Because there are a hundred million fossils that all disprove evolution. So I must constantly keep printing books.

KAMIL IMRAN: Why is it that some Muslims don't realise the importance of fighting Darwinism and revealing its unscientific and erroneous teachings, and they seem so unaware, oblivious to this theory which is the root of all the problems in the world, including the oppression of other Muslims around the world? Why are they intent on moulding evolution with Islam, does this come from a weakness in faith, lack of trust in Allah, or just ignorance?

ADNAN OKTAR:This stems from a kind of defeatism some Muslims feel in the face of evolution, from some people lacking sufficient knowledge and in other cases from a weakness of faith. They try to reconcile evolution with Islam because they do not know how to defeat it or out of a fear of being defeated. This stems partly from ignorance and partly from fear of the Darwinist dictatorship. Even more dangerously, some people imagine, as a result of Darwinist indoctrination, that evolution is scientific. They therefore imagine that opposing evolution is the same as opposing science itself. But it is impossible for anyone to accept evolution if he thinks scientifically. Everyone who espouses science is opposed to evolution, because evolution is a stream of fraud and nonsense. It is unable to explain how even a single protein came into being. Asked how life came into being, Darwinism replies, ‘The first cell came into existence in a collection of muddy water over a long period of time through the effects of storms and lightning.’ In other words, it says that stone, earth and mud decided spontaneously to create the first cell. It is impossible for any rational, educated person to believe such nonsense.

Yet although it has been scientifically discredited, huge efforts are made to keep Darwinism alive for ideological reasons. Because Darwinism is the foundation for materialism and all other movements incompatible with religious moral values. Darwinist-materialist movements that espouse evolution and the error that man is the supposed result of blind chance, maintain that relations between human beings, themselves a kind of animal, should be those that apply among animals. In its own eyes this perversion regards selfishness, ruthlessness, conflict and murder as quite legitimate. It regards feelings such as compassion, love, affection and respect as obstacles that supposedly impede the course of evolution. Darwinist indoctrination produces people who have no human love, who are cruel, aggressive and self-interested. But people who cannot understand Darwinism and its dangers also fail to understand the importance of the intellectual struggle being waged against it. Instead of combatting Darwinism intellectually, these people resort to various means of ignoring and avoiding the struggle. Some try to convince themselves and others that the struggle is unimportant by saying ‘Darwinism is not actually all that important.’ Some seek to establish a ‘middle path’ between Islam and the theory of evolution. They thus, in their own eyes, seek to reconcile Darwinism with Islam.  This attitude, which we may describe as “The attempted Islamification of Darwinism,’ contains serious flaws and errors. There can be no question of a Muslim seeking an intellectual ‘reconciliation’ between Darwinism and Islam. It is impossible for true believers to seek ‘reconciliation’ with a theory the purpose behind which is to reject Allah and Creation.

KAMIL IMRAN:Moving on to the subject of Our Beloved Hazrat Mahdi (as).Will Hazrat Mahdi (as) have the same name as Our Beloved Prophet (pbuh), or is it possible He could have a different name, (for example other names by which the Prophet (pbuh) was addressed, or maybe even the names of his ancestors?

ADNAN OKTAR: Our Prophet (saas) has revealed in several hadith that Hazrat Mahdi’s (as) name will be ‘compatible’ with that of out Prophet (saas). Our Prophet (saas) says, ‘His name will be compatible with my name, and his father’s name with my father’s name.’ We will see this when Hazrat Mahdi (as) appears, insha’Allah.

KAMIL IMRAN:Is Hazrat Mahdi (as) already here?

ADNAN OKTAR: In my opinion, Hazrat Mahdi (as) has already come.  One can see this from the hadith of our Prophet (saas), and from statements by Said Nursi, Imam Rabbani and Suyuti. As you know, Imam Suyuti was a great Sunni scholar and hadith expert. In his work, Imam Suyuti cites our Prophet (saas) as saying “The life of the Ummah will not exceed the year 1500 (Islamic calendar).” We are in the year 1430 (Islamic calendar). There is the mujaddid of the 11th century, Barzanji, who says the same thing. He says, “The life of the Ummah will not exceed 1500.” Said Nursi also says that Doomsday will take place in 1545. So Doomsday is imminent. In addition, our Prophet (saas) has cited hundreds of hadith as portents of the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as). And almost all of these have come about. For example, our Prophet (saas) has said that Afghanistan will be invaded in the time of Hazrat Mahdi (as), and that happened. He said that Iraq would be invaded, and that happened. He speaks of bloodshed in the Kaaba, and that happened. He says the waters of the Euphrates will be stopped, and the waters have really been stopped by a dam. The hadith state that in the year of Hazrat Mahdi’s (as) appearance there will be eclipses of the Sun and Moon at 15-day intervals during the month of Ramadan. And those also happened. He described Halley’s comet, and that happened. And he describes the comet Lulin, a double-tailed star, and that has also come about. He speaks of a war between Iran and Iraq, and that happened. He says there will be a major economic crisis, and that has happened. More than a hundred similar portents have taken place. We can tell from these that Hazrat Mahdi (as) has come. Any of our brothers wanting detailed information about these portents can obtain it from the web site. I think we will very soon have the opportunity of coming to know Hazrat Mahdi (as). The coming of the Prophet Jesus (as) is also very imminent, and we will soon be enjoying happy days, insha’Allah.

KAMIL IMRAN:Will everybody recognize him?

ADNAN OKTAR:No, only those with sincere faith in their hearts will be able to recognize him as Hazrat Mahdi (as).  Bediuzzaman Said Nursi says, “Only his close followers will recognize him through the light of faith.” Though Hazrat Mahdi (as) is someone people will easily be able to see and communicate with. People will be able to see him, but they will not know he is Hazrat Mahdi (as). One hadith says, “Hazrat Mahdi (as) will walk among people and in the streets, but people will not recognize him.” It is also essential in terms of his being able to carry on his work that he not be recognized.

KAMIL IMRAN:If so, how soon do you think we can recognize him?

ADNAN OKTAR: I think we will very soon have the opportunity of becoming acquainted with Hazrat Mahdi (as). We will say, “This person is Hazrat Mahdi (as) when the Turkish-Islamic Union is founded, when the moral values of Islam rule the world and when the Prophet Jesus (as) performs prayer (namaz) behind this blessed individual. As can be seen from the hadith and statements by Bediuzzaman, this may be very imminent. I think that Hazrat Mahdi (as) will be fully known within 10 years at most. Allah knows the truth, of course.

KAMIL IMRAN:I read in one of your articles on the site that Hazrat Mahdi (as) will have a standard bearer (a person), does this mean he will be like a spokesman for Hazrat Mahdi (as), and if so, should we try and recognize him also (because he is close to Hazrat Mahdi (as))?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, the hadith do note that Hazrat Mahdi (as) will have someone referred to as a “standard bearer.” It may be Hazrat Mahdi’s closest follower, his greatest supporter. When Allah introduces Hazrat Mahdi (as) to us, people will naturally see that he is the person described in the hadith.

KAMIL IMRAN: What do you think Jesus (as) would say to the Christian world and even the Pope if he were to arrive in the near future; would he reproach them and inform them that they have made a big mistake in associating him with Allah and their error regarding the trinity, etc.?

ADNAN OKTAR: Allah fiercely condemns the belief in the trinity in the Qur’an. In the Hereafter, Allah asks the Prophet Jesus (as), “Did you tell people to abandon Allah and take you and your mother as gods?” And the prophet Jesus (as) will say, “Surely You are beyond that. It would ill-befit me to say something that I do not deserve. If I said such a thing, You must have known it.” “My Lord,” the Prophet Jesus (as) will say, “I said that You are the only God.”  The Prophet Jesus (as) will free the Christian world from this error it has fallen into.  Insha’Allah, this will be corrected once the Prophet Jesus (as) returns. The Prophet Jesus (as) will correct this distorted opinion through the Qur’an and monotheistic belief. Any believer must say, “Allah is One.” When the Prophet Jesus (as) returns he will put right the belief in the trinity, eliminate heretical beliefs and restore the idea of what is lawful and unlawful according to the Qur’an. That is what the account of the Prophet Jesus (as) smashing the idol on his return means.

KAMIL IMRAN:The reason I ask you the following question is because of your amazing research into and knowledge of zionism and freemasonry. Who do you think was really responsible for 9/11? Were freemasons responsible for it?

ADNAN OKTAR: This event was of course very finely planned by the masons, and is a very wide-ranging one that was carried out with satan’s support. Darwinist masons and atheist zionists are always to be found wherever there is terror and violence. These are the people who wish anarchy, conflict and terror to dominate the world. Since they follow satan, he constantly demands blood from them. And they constantly offer satan blood. To that end, they will provoke a bombing here or incite a war there. 9/11 was a ruse planned for that purpose by masons and atheist zionists.

KAMIL IMRAN: Thank You and JazakAllah for your time. May Allah Bless You and Support You Always, InshAllah. I Love You Very Much. Alhamdulillah.

ADNAN OKTAR:Thank you. May Allah protect the entire Muslim world and increase His protection of all our Muslim brothers and bestow peace and well-being on all, insha’Allah. And I love you all very much. Muslims must all love one another. We are all brothers. Brothers must embrace one another and support one another, insha’Allah. Allah will soon free the world of oppression using the hands of Muslims.  Muslims must feel the joy and excitement of that. Insha’Allah there are happy days awaiting us. Very great, pleasant, delightful and metaphysical events are going to take place. A great Turkish-Islamic Union will be established, insha’Allah. We are in the End Times. All the portents of the End Times have happened. Hazrat Mahdi (as) has started work, and we will see the coming of the Prophet Jesus (as). There will be an air of celebration all over the world, insha’Allah. I am giving everyone these glad tidings. Our Prophet (saas) has already imparted these tidings, and I am handing them on.

2010-06-27 21:21:58

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