The Secret Beyond Matter

Mr. Adnan Oktar's live interview with Samuel Sokol, Jerusalem based journalist for 5T Jewish Times, Ami & Zman Magazines

Excerpt from Mr. Adnan Oktar's Live Interview on A9 TV, September 26th, 2011

ADNAN OKTAR: Salam, how are you?

TRANSLATOR:I guess he does not hear you.

ADNAN OKTAR: Then tell him that he is conveying his salaams and asking how are you?

SAMUEL SOKOL: I am doing fine, thank you very much.

ADNAN OKTAR: What is your name?

SAMUEL SOKOL: Samuel Sokol. I am a reporter from Israel for several newspapers in New York such as the Algemeiner Journal, Ami Magazine, Jewish Times...

ADNAN OKTAR: Good, well now, can he repeat the question once again?

SAMUEL SOKOL: I asked regarding his efforts of religious dialogue. For instance when he's been inviting Israeli Rabbis to come to Turkey. Does he believe that opening up such a dialogue will have a political impact?

ADNAN OKTAR: There is no such thing like interfaith dialogue. Every person, Christian, Jew or Muslim, has to be connected with each other. This is the command of religion, this is the command of the Qur'an. That is, it is not something that has recently been discovered. The Qur'an commanded us to do so. Allah says [in the Qur'an] that talk to them [the People of the Book] in the kindest way. Of course, we will be in connection with each other. We will go to your dinner and you will also come to our dinner. This is the commandment of the Qur'an. Our Prophet (saas) was always in interconnection with the People of the Book. He was showing compassion to them. Consequently, mutual discourse, mutual connection, is Allah's command which is in the Torah as well as in the Qur'an. For instance, in the upcoming days many renowned rabbis will be coming here, we will host them in the most beautiful manner. They had also come here before and we had talked, we had hosted them. Yes, and I also invited the Chief Rabbi and the Minister of Internal Affairs, insha'Allah they will honor us. They are also considering visiting us. We will be honored, insha'Allah.

SAMUEL SOKOL: Can you tell me a little about your connections to the regime, to the current government? There are reports that are opposed to saying that you are not connected, there are reports that say that you are just a supporter. If you are connected to the current government, how do they look on your efforts to maintain the connection with Israel, even during this time of diplomatic freeze between the two countries?

ADNAN OKTAR: Because I support Israel, many bigoted circles, many stupid people hold a grudge against me. But I feel proud of that. I am a man of his word; I am not affected by such acts. I advocate the truth and do what I consider to be right. I have no concerns such as what people, what others would be saying, that it might be obscene, or concerns over not disconcerting…. Yes, whatever is right, fine and true, I would do that even if it costs me my life. Wherever there is injustice, I oppose it for Allah's approval with love, compassion, knowledge and with science.

SAMUEL SOKOL: How have you developed your connections with Israeli politicians and religious figures? Israelis, people here in Israel look at you as one of the last, in their view, one of the last sane people in Turkey for your efforts. How have you managed to cultivate your Israeli ties?

ADNAN OKTAR: All of the Turkish nation is very sweet, loving, of good nature, hospitable and compassionate. We also displayed it in the time of the Ottomans. We brought our Jewish brothers all the way from Spain and hosted them here in the most beautiful city. Nothing has changed up until then. We are the sons of the same Ottomans. The very same nature, the very same personality persist. Let your heart be at ease. Indeed, let me give you an example. That is indeed a very explicit example. You know that there is the missile shield project in Malatya. This missile shield is being placed in the Kurecik district of Malatya. Its aim is to protect Turkey. But the primary goal is to protect the region. Consequently it is there for the protection of Israel. It predominantly aims to protect Israel. Because in the case of a nuclear attack, the zone where the missiles will be intercepted will be the region over Turkey. That is, the area over Syria and Iraq. This is the region where the missile will break into pieces. This is an incredible sacrifice; an inconceivable firmness. Notice that it is a very self-sacrificing act [on the part of Turkey] to protect other people and Israel. Turkey makes the system that will intercept the missile in the air installed on its very own lands. In this case too, I explicitly state that the primary goal is Israel. That is, to protect Israel. It is against a possible attack from Iran. Notice that I also say this very explicitly. I do not talk in an implicit manner. I do not play around with language. I talk in a very straightforward manner. It is not intended for another attack that will come beforehand. It is especially aimed at Iran because North Korea is very far away. It is not intended for North Korea. It is intended for Iran. And the actual zone that will be protected is Israel because right now Iran is not considered to be a threat to another country. But if still all possibilities are taken into consideration; even if we regard with such a viewpoint, in a possible missile attack, the place where the missile will be intercepted will be the lands of Turkey and Iran. The lands of Iraq and Syria. It is a system that will prevent the missile from falling on the lands of Israel. Would anyone ask for further evidence? What else would I say?

SAMUEL SOKOL: Turkey has recently, at least in the eyes of Israelis, been acting a little bit aggressive with its threats against Cyprus, the agreement with the Iranians to attack part of Iraqi Kurdistan, and its statements indicating that it wishes to send naval warships to the Eastern Mediterranean. Is there any effort from friends of Israel, like Mr. Oktar, in Turkey to try to restrain Mr. Erdogan's policies which are, in the eyes of Israeli's at least, the cause of the breakdown in relations?

ADNAN OKTAR: Let me say this; such things that seem to be aggressive are not things that can be applied in practice. However, it is Turkey's right to defend itself against the PKK. Because the PKK is a psychopathic organization; an atheist organization that believes in no God, no religion, no Book; a bloody and terrorist organization. Of course the state will protect the defenseless; the state is defending itself. But every word besides that, every activity is not to be put into practice; so practically, Turkey would not enter into a war, shed any blood or cause any scene; neither the Turkish people nor the army would let this happen. No such thing would happen.

SAMUEL SOKOL: Okay. What do you believe can be done to fix relations between Turkey and Israel? What concrete steps could be taken to mend the rift?

ADNAN OKTAR: Then let's increase the number of visits. Now those rabbis with high ranking will come, we will hold a press conference with them. We are again expecting the Minister of Internet Affairs [Mr. Eli Yishai]. We are expecting the Chief Rabbi [Mr. Shlomo Amar]. Such friendly and warm conversations, such dialogs are very resolving. As you may notice, we started to see the effects of all these. You also saw the effects of these very rapidly. So we have begun to get its results in these days. If you are following as well, it is clearly seen. We have seen the Prime Minister [Erdogan]'s latest statement also; he gave a very compassionate and peaceful message against war and bloodshed. So it is clear that we are getting good results.

SAMUEL SOKOL: Erdogan made a statement recently claiming that Israel has killed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, to which Prime Minister Netanyahu has responded in a very harsh way regarding his views on the Turkish leadership. What do you believe is the motivation for Erdogan? What does he gain, maybe face in the Arab World or increased stature; what does he gain by going after Israel in this manner?

ADNAN OKTAR: It is true that Israel kills the Palestinian people; this is something on the clear. It is also true that Palestines launches rockets at them, kills people and has suicide bombers, and kills women and children there; both of them are true. We are struggling so none of these happen. We want to stop the bloodshed and to establish love and peace. Because one side is the sons of the Prophet Ismael (pbuh), and the other side is the sons of the Prophet Israel (pbuh); we are struggling to make them embrace one another, make them brothers and sisters, and to live in joy and happiness in that broad region. Shiloh is the one who will achieve this, the King Messiah, meaning Mohammad Mahdi (pbuh). There is no one else to do this. We are the vanguard of the Mahdi (pbuh), I am a student of the Mahdi (pbuh), I am a student of King Moshiach. Therefore, for the good pleasure of Allah, we are making these efforts.

SAMUEL SOKOL: Okay. What type of relationship, if any, do you have with the Jewish community in Turkey? Are you in touch with the Chief Rabbi? Do you have any sort of relationship with the Jews of Istanbul?

ADNAN OKTAR: Well, the truth of the matter is that the real Jews, the religious Jews are in Israel. I do not consider the Jews in Turkey -I consider all of them free of this, but I mean some of them- as devout people. I mean they are not so religious. What do you call them? I mean they are removed from religion. Even the Chief Rabbi [Ishak Haleva] himself in Turkey said so anyway. I mean the Chief Rabbi in Turkey has said that many Jewish people in Turkey do not have any relationship with religion, I mean the majority of them or some of them. I myself address to the devout Muslims, I have my real connection with them. About what can I talk to a person who is not religious? That is because if I mention them the name of the King Messiah, they would say; "Whom are you talking about?" If I talk to them about the Qur'an, about the Torah, they would tell me "what are you talking about?" We wouldn't be able to find a point of connection in between. That would be very hard. But of course we could have a humane relationship. We could have a chat, we could have friendly talks. I would make an effort to ensure their goodness, I would preach the message of Islam to them. But my real addressee is the devout Jews. For instance, I do love the Chief Rabbi. I do love the religious Rabbis there. I do have a wide religious circle in Israel. I do have a wide circle from among my Muslim brothers as well and from the Christians. I love them all very much.

SAMUEL SOKOL: Last year, there were reports that you've invited Rabbi Yoel Schwartz from Jerusalem to come to Turkey to meet with a representative of the Iranian President Ahmadinejad. As far as I know Rabbi Schwartz didn't come to Turkey in the end, but you intended to try to mend the rift between Iran and Israel according to reports, by showing that the Israelis are more religious than the Iranians have thought. Can you tell me a little bit about your efforts of reconciliation between the Iranians and the Israelis and about your relationship to, if any, to the Iranians?

ADNAN OKTAR: That is right… Now, first of all I stress on that real issue in Iran. I mean they have a belief in the Ghost Mahdi. I mean they believe that Mahdi could appear in the form of a vision, or in the form of a voice, that he could be seen as a person and that he could be seen at hundreds, thousands of places at once. And of course that is a very grave danger. A man could step up and say; "My friend Mahdi had appeared to me, he told me to go and kill those people and raze this country to the ground." Well, what are we going to do then? That is an abnormal situation. We are at the moment striving to correct this false belief. When this wrong belief is corrected, that would mean that the matter is solved. The appearance of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will be with this event. The appearance of the King Messiah will be with this incident. I mean it would be realized with the removal of this wrong and fake Mahdi belief. This is the biggest mistake of Iran. That is because someone claims that "He has appeared me in the form of light", another says that "He had appeared to me as a vision". He says that he had seen his face. That happens in schizophrenia, that happens in paranoia. When you get that man into a session he would say; "A vision had appeared to me." That is a grave danger; this is psychopathic. We are educating them against this. Read us the verses of the Torah regarding the Mahdi [King Messiah]. Let us give them a bit of information and then let us inform them about the hadiths. Yes, read some of them to us.

Let us give you some information about the Torah.


Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) [King Messiah] in the Torah:

"... Son of David [King Messiah, like the Prophet Solomon (pbuh)]... reigned only over his couch..".(Talmud, Sanhedrin 20b)

"... And he will be called Wonderful Counselor…" (Isaiah, 9:6)

"[King Messiah] will not come... unless they will renounce their hope to be redeemed." (Talmud, Sanhedrin 97a)

"Your eyes will see the King [Messiah] in his beauty..." (Isaiah, 33:17)

"You are the most handsome of the sons men; grace is poured upon your lips..." (Psalms, 45:2)

"O mighty one [King Messiah]; clothe yourself with splendor and majesty." (Psalms, 45:3)

"Let your sharp arrows pierce the hearts of the king's enemies [King Messiah's words are so wise and affective that he will make the irreligious ideologies ineffective]. Let the nations fall beneath your feet [all the people will be subject to King Mesiah]." (Psalms, 45:5)

ADNAN OKTAR:Now read us a bit about the hadiths regarding Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). Let us read from the hadiths of our Prophet (saas). That is an important piece of information for them to know the commands which state that he [Hazrat Mahdi] will bring peace, that he will bring brotherhood, that he will put an end to the bloodshed and to know that we are in this period. Yes.

PRESENTER:"Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will shed not one drop of blood and will not awaken the sleeper."

ADNAN OKTAR:I mean, stress on the name of the King Messiah so that they could be able to relate.

PRESENTER:Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) is King Mashiach. Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) is someone who avoids war.

Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) [King Maschiah] is someone who avoids war, a man of peace. Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will cause the moral values of the Qur'an to rule the world through love, not through war. The fact that Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will bring about the rule of the moral values of the deen [the religion of Islam] through peace and love, which represents one of his main distinguishing features, is described as follows in the hadith:

"People will seek refuge in the Mahdi (pbuh) as honey bees cluster around their sovereign. He will fill the world that was once full of cruelty, with justice. His justice will be as such that he will not wake a sleeping person not even one drop of blood is shed.The earth will return to the age of happiness." (Al-Qawl al-Mukhtasar fi 'Alamat al-Mahdi al-Muntazar, p. 29 and 48)

"Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will follow the way of the Prophet (saas). He will not wake up a sleeping person or no blood will be shed."(Portents of Doomsday, p. 163)

"In the time of [Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), King Moshiach]no one will be woken up from their sleep or have a bleeding nose."(Al-Qawl al-Mukhtasar fi 'Alamat al-Mahdi al-Muntazar, p. 44)

ADNAN OKTAR: That is enough for now. Let us continue. Yes we can continue with our interview.

SAMUEL SOKOL:Okay. There are reports that I've read that before you became an advocate for religious dialogue, before you became an advocate for the Israeli and the Jewish cause in Turkey, you had initially written a book regarding the Jews and the Freemasons and their role in controlling the world affairs. Is that true and if so what brought about the change from writing a book like that, to becoming an advocate for the Israeli cause?

ADNAN OKTAR:Allah governs the world. There are people in Jewish Masonry who do not believe in God and religion, there are irreligious Masons, those are part of the dajjal [anti-Messiah] committee. The irreligious Christians are also among them. The irreligious Muslims are also among them. They are the committee of the dajjal, they are the anti-Messiah, so they are the anti-Christs; and now, the system of Mahdi is struggling against them. Sincere Jews, religious Jews, religious Muslims, religious Christians unite and struggle against this dajjal army that has no God, no Book with love, science, knowledge and mind. Atheist irreligious Jews are tormenting our religious Jewish brothers there in Israel, we know about this.

SAMUEL SOKOL: Okay interesting. Can you tell me a little more about the current situation in Turkey? Do you believe that Erdogan has wide support and do you believe you have a chance of, I guess, turning things around to your purportedly moderate brand of Islamism?

ADNAN OKTAR:The viewpoint of the Turkish people is important. The whole Turkish people are compassionate, full of love, merciful, loving and well-behaved. The members of the AK Party are also very sincere and compassionate. The people inside the government are also very nice. But sometimes Mr. Tayyip use a strong language, but his heart is soft; he is a merciful person, he is compassionate. He likes children, he likes the elderly, he likes people, he hates bloodshed. You may pay no attention to his statement today. He emphasized all that I said and the viewpoint of the system of Mahdi very nicely… Look, let me give you his statement today, so you can see from there.

PRESENTER:He gave an interview with CNN international, and he said that he wants peace, he does not want war. [He said:] "We are thirsty for peace. We are fed up of wars. And trillions of dollars are going to the wars. So we don't want that and for Iran, we have…"

ADNAN OKTAR: He says that if there is an attack from Iran, we will respond but if they don't attack, nothing happens, shortly.

SAMUEL SOKOL: Okay. I would also just like to ask my final question would be regarding his idea about a Turkish Islamic Union. I have seen that idea in several articles about Mr. Oktar. What is he exactly referring to when he says Turkish Islamic Union? Is this a form of Neo-Ottomanism? Or a desire to see a resurgent Ottoman Empire? What is he specifically referring to? What does he desire?

ADNAN OKTAR:It's similar to the Ottoman Empire in some points but it's inconsequential to the Ottoman Empire. Because here, the states are independent as republics. There's only a union in love, peace, brotherhood. There's a union against terrorism and anarchy. There's a union of economical support. There's a union of protecting and watching over each other. And there's an equal treatment to everyone. To Christians, Jews and Muslims. This is the master pattern for the Turkish Islamic Union. This is the pattern of the system of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), King Messiah. This is what's being mentioned in the hadith and in Torah. Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will rule the world like the Prophet Solomon (pbuh), King Solomon. Peace, brotherhood will be throughout the world. Wolf and lamb will live in the same place, fight will cease, arms will be destroyed. Please read the related hadiths, and then the passages from the Torah.

PRESENTER:First, I'll read the related hadiths about this:

Justice during the time of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) [King Messiah]:

"Earth will be filled with equity and justice, just as it was previously filled with oppression and tyranny." (Abu Dawud)

"There will be no injustice or oppression under his [Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), Moshiach's] rule." (Ad-Dani)

Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will rule with equity and justice:

"The lord of believers (saas) says: '... The Imam [Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh)] will better know what is true and what is false. He will do away with false laws. He [Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh)] will prevent dangers and neutralize your unjust rulers and will cleanse the world of those who are not honest. He will act with equity and build a merciful sclae of justice among you... If you wait, you will be rewarded and you will realize that is definitely the one who will salvage your rights and take revenge for the injustice inflicted upon you. I swear by the name of Allah, that Allah is with the truly devout and those who do good.'"

And now from the Torah...

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes go on. So you read the hadith, now you read from the Torah. Okya, right. About peace and brotherhood?

PRESENTER:About justice.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes justice, yes.

PRESENTER: Now, I will read from the Torah regarding wars will come to an end.

"I will take away the chariots... and the battle bow will be broken... He [King Messiah] will proclaim peace to the nations..." (Zechariah, 9:10)

"... Burn them [the weapons] up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears... They will use them for fuel... declares the Sovereign Lord." (Ezekiel, 39:9-10)

A climate of peace and security from the Torah:

"The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together, and a little child will lead them... The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy..." (Isaiah, 11:6-9)

"The fruit of righteousness will be peace; the effect of righteousness will be quietness and confidence forever. My people will live in peaceful dwelling places, in secure homes, in undisturbed places of rest." (Isaiah, 32:16-18)

"In that time [King Messiah's era] there will be neither famine nor war, neither envy nor strife. All good things will be bestowed in abundance, and all delicacies will be accessible like dust." (Maimonides, Mishnah Torah, Laws of Kings 12:5)

"... In the last days... He [the Lord]... will settle the disputes for many peoples... Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.Every man will sit under his own vine and under his own fig tree, and no one will make them afraid..." (Micah, 4:1-4)

People will live in happiness and joy:

"Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away." (Isaiah, 51:11)

"Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. Then will the lamb leap like a deer, and the mute tongue shout for joy..." (Isaiah, 35:5-6)

King Messiahwill establish world peace:

"... [King Messiah] shall speak peace unto the nations." (Zechariah, 9:10)

"[In the time of King Messiah] battles and wars will cease... They will not lift a sword, nation against nation." (Maimonides, Mishnah Torah, Sanhedrin 10:1)

King Messiah will possess love and compassion:

"He will redeem their soul from oppression and violence, and precious will be their blood be in his sight." (Psalm, 72:14)

"For he will deliver the needy who cry out, the afflicted who have no one to help." (Psalm, 72:12)

"He will have pity on the poor and needy, and the souls of the needy he will save." (Psalm, 72:13)

"A bruised reed shall he not break, and the dimly burning wick shall he not quench..." (Isaiah, 42:3)

People will live in happiness and joy:

"The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears from all faces..." (Isaiah, 25:8)

"Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away." (Isaiah, 51:11)

"Joy and gladness will be found in her, thanksgiving and the sound of singing." (Isaiah, 51:3)

"In his days... prosperity will abound till the moon is no more." (Psalm, 72:7)

"[They]... will enjoy great peace." (Psalm, 37:11)

"... They rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as men rejoice when dividing the plunder." (Isaiah, 9:3)

"... [King Messiah] shall speak peace unto the nations." (Zechariah, 9:10)

ADNAN OKTAR:That is enough for the time being. We can proceed later. We can proceed with the interview.

SAMUEL SOKOL: Can I askone final question?

ADNAN OKTAR:Yes, please.

SAMUEL SOKOL: I would just like to conclude with my final question. If Mr. Oktar has any specific message that he would like to give to the Israelis? Anything he would like to say to the people of Israel?

ADNAN OKTAR:We love all of you. I also convey my greetings to the Mr. Prime Minister [Netanyahu]. I say that everything will be fine, that everything will be all right. You are in the time of King Messiah. The suffering you had been through for three thousand years comes to an end. Rejoice! The beauty of peace and goodness will enclose all around insha'Allah [God willing]. Feel the joy of it. We are entering an era when you will fairly live together with Palestinians, with all Arab countries like brothers, insha'Allah. Those who advocate peace, those who experience love, peace and brotherhood, those who love brotherhood and beauty will be victorious. The armies of satan will be defeated. There will be no more fights, conflicts. You may already experience the joy of it. There will be no room for unnecessary unease. We will cooperate to eliminate this climate of conflicts, the climate of tension. You see that we are already eliminating it. You witness the results we are achieving. As satan wants to scheme, we break its leg, its arm with science, knowledge and love. I hereby present my love to all the people of Israel, to the Israeli government and Mr. Prime Minister [Netanyahu]. I wish goodness and love to all my Palestinian and Muslim brothers, to the Christians, to all of them. May Allah protect you all.

SAMUEL SOKOL: Thank you very much for having me on your program. Thank you.

2011-09-28 05:45:46

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