The Secret Beyond Matter

Adnan Oktar replies to foreign press questions at Ciragan Palace (18 September 2008)

ADNAN OKTAR:The members of the press can continue with their work. I shall now be taking questions from the press, particularly from foreign press members. They are our guests, and our other brothers may be regarded as local. Our foreign guests in particular can now begin asking their questions.

REPORTER:You always support peace in the region and in the world. Turkish President Gül recently went to Armenia. Turkey has a Caucasian Alliance suggestion for the region. How do you evaluate this suggestion?

ADNAN OKTAR:Superb, an excellent initiative. The Armenians are our friends and brothers, our former loyal brothers. As you know, they used to be known as the Loyal Nation. They were called the Loyal Nation in Ottoman times. We want to go back to those happy times. We really want to embrace them, improve our brotherhood, and even eliminate the borders between us and, insha’Allah, for them to take their place in the Turkish-Islamic Union. Our president’s initiative was a very good and auspicious initiative, insha’Allah. And insha’Allah it will continue. It will turn into full friendship, full dialogue and full brotherhood. These genocide claims and territorial demands are exceedingly inappropriate and unnecessary. These are ideas left over from the past. We want the best for them. And we hope they will wish the best for us. Let us now be friends and brothers. Let us co-operate in business, industry, culture, science and everything. Let us live happily and in peace.

ADNAN OKTAR:I think that our guests from the foreign press may be curious about the Dawkins affair. The best thing is for me to say something about it before they ask. I have long espoused the idea that all scientists, Dawkins included, should be free and at liberty to express their ideas as they wish. I am not opposed to freedom of ideas. We even wrote to him asking if we could hold a debate, if there could be a discussion program between us. We said he could come here or we could go there. But he said that he had taken a wow and was not in favor of such things. What I am emphasizing here is that I am a full supporter of freedom of ideas. Because I want to learn his ideas, for him to set out his thoughts. And I want to express my own ideas in response to his. The reason for the closure of Dawkins’ web site was that it contained personal severe insults and false accusations against me. Any ordinary person would employ his legal rights and defend himself in such a situation. And I defended myself the same as any other citizen. And the law did what it had to.

REPORTER: I am from the Arab kingdom near Babylon. The terrorist face of al-Qaida has recently been seen in Iraq. What is your opinion of this? They have regarded many of the local people as mujahedeen, but it has become very clear in Iraq of late. Al-Qaida did not work on behalf of Muslims. What is your view on the subject?

ADNAN OKTAR:Muslims are rational, affectionate, compassionate, forgiving, respectful, and are humble towards all ideas. They treat Christians, Jews and members of other faiths with respect and watch over their security, honor, integrity and everything else. If they do not do this, they have nothing to do with Islam. They may have original ideas, or be under the influence of Darwinism. They perhaps hold Marxist views. They may be supporting anarchist terrorism. For that reason, it is not enough to say they are Muslims. If they are Muslims they must behave as Islam requires. If they do not, then I think there is little logic in referring to them as Muslims.

REPORTER-INTERPRETER:There is recently strong criticism in United Kingdom of Islamic creationism being included in education. May I learn your views on this? And what do you think of the situation in Turkey?

ADNAN OKTAR:I have long been a supporter of freedom of ideas. The idea of creation is a scholarly, rational and scientific one. It is not a fictitious claim, in other words. There are 100 million fossils in existence. All of these fossils are of such a kind as to prove creation. But they were hidden away. And that is a scandal. A scientific scandal. Many fossils dating back to the Cambrian Period were hidden away in store rooms. This is an accepted fact, not something denied. The fraudulent nature of the skulls has emerged, and this is also admitted. It has been scientifically demonstrated that a protein cannot come into being by chance. And that is admitted. Yet to try to prevent mention of these, to keep them hidden away, in the face of all this is a violation of science. Science means free thinking. It is very, very wrong to pressurize scientists, to implement such a dictatorial system as Darwinism or to behave in such a way as to inflict a Darwinist dictatorship on the world. I think that scientists removed from their posts should be restored to their posts. This is very unattractive. This has also happened in Turkey. Let there be as much freedom of thought as possible, and let Darwinists be free to express all their ideas. And let the proponents of creation exhibit all their scientific evidence.

REPORTER-INTERPRETER:There is confusion about what Darwinism is. What is your view of it? What does Darwinism mean to you?

ADNAN OKTAR:Darwinism is a pagan belief that has been around since Sumerian times. It is a very ordinary idea. There is no scientific evidence for it. Not a single transitional form fossil has ever been found. I have eve said I will give 10 trillion [Turkish lira] to anyone coming up with a single such fossil. I mean I said I will give 10 trilliions to the person bringing me a fossil that will prove Darwinism right, that could be seen as an evidence on that point. My offer still stands valid. Nobody has so far presented one, and I am still waiting. On the other hand, however, there are 100 million fossils that prove Creation. One hundred million. What more need be said? Darwinism is a specious belief. It is maintained under official protection across the world. Take that official protection away, and Darwinism will be unable to survive a week or 10 days. I look at the opinion polls; take Switzerland. A report in the Swiss magazine Factum said that the Swiss public want creation to be taught in schools. A poll in the famous daily Blick put the level of belief in Creation at 85%. A poll by Science Actualites in France put the level of people believing in evolution at 5%, with 92% believing in Creation. Anyone can see these on the internet. According to a survey by the famous German daily Süddeutsche Zeitung, 85% of people believe that man is the work of a Creator. These are developments following in the wake of the arrival of the Atlas of Creation in Europe. There has been extraordinary progress. This shows that the people of Europe are by nature predisposed to the truth, to honesty. I congratulate them on that. For example, in a poll by Die Welt, one of Germany’s main dailies, 86% of respondents answered the question how life emerged by saying that Allah created it. You can see that on the internet. A report in the Belgian newspaper De Morgen stated that over 8 out of 10 Muslim students think that evolution is total nonsense. It is the same in other papers. It is the same in Denmark. For instance, 88% of people in Denmark say no when asked if they think that human beings are descended from apes. This is on the daily Ekstra Bladet web site. Anyone who wants to can see it. It has had a huge impact in Europe. We can see this from Tony Blair’s statements. We can see the powerful impact in France from people at the head of the state there. There is really perfect progress.

REPORTER-INTERPRETER:In your books, with regard to Darwinism, you say that Darwinism is the cause of this very aggressive struggle. Could you explain why? And could you also explain how Darwinism led to the First and Second World Wars?

ADNAN OKTAR:I can explain it in summary form. This is a very wide-ranging issue. It is set out with comprehensive evidence in my book. But belief in Allah bestows feelings of affection, compassion and love on people. But if one regards the person in front of one as having formed by chance from swamp mud and as a kind of animal, then one will look on that person as an insect and harbor no feelings of compassion or love for them. There may be a few such people who do harbor those feelings, but in general terms not. We have seen the practical consequences. Hitler describes clearly and in detail how he was influenced by Darwin. Marx also openly states that he was influenced by Darwin and that his ideas underlie his own. It is the same with Mussolini and all the other fascist movements. And we can also see that it is this that lies at the root of the First and Second World Wars. We see it is this behind genocide. Because Social Darwinism believes that the strong will eliminate the weak, and, as you know, this is at the heart of Darwinism. Even in ethical practice it is the strong who are in the right. Even if weak, it is the strong who are in the right. That is why Darwinism has corrupted the world for the last 100-150 years, and everyone has seen this. This is the source of all chaos, bit one would have to make a detailed study of the intellectual and scholarly evidence in my book in order to understand this in a scientific, rational and detailed manner.


REPORTER:I have another question, Sir. There is another case going ahead parallel to this one. It is going on in Germany at this moment. You are the leader of a civil society organization, which is why I am asking. Could we learn your thoughts on the Lighthouse case?

ADNAN OKTAR:This has been seen in all intellectual schools, in all schools of thought, in Marxist associations and in [atheistic] Masonic associations, and it can be seen in religious associations and institutions, though it only involves the people caught up in it; whoever has committed a crime will be punished for the offense. But this is not something that can encapsulate a whole party, people who voted for the party, a huge mass of people. It is not something to do with them, in other words. Of course, if such an offense has been committed that is a sin and a disgrace, something very ugly and very wrong, and the perpetrator must be punished. But that only involves the people concerned. It does not involve all the supporters of a party that won almost half the votes in the country. It will not, therefore, cause a decline in voter support or wear the party down. In my opinion. But whoever did it has been immoral and behaved badly. It is the prosecutors and the courts that will decide this under the law and it will thus be proved who was involved.

REPORTER:Do the Science Research Foundation and Adnan Oktar support any particular party?

ADNAN OKTAR:I support the MHP [Nationalist Movement Party], the Great Unity Party, the AKP [the ruling Justice and Development Party]. I support [Republican People’s Party (CHP) leader] Deniz Baykal as an individual. Those are my ideas. I also support the Felicity Party. I support the whole of the Right, in other words. I also support everyone who I think is genuine and sincere on the Left. For instance, I have formed the genuine opinion that Deniz Baykal is religious and a nationalist. I believe that he is someone worthy of respect from his language and behavior. I support him as an individual.

REPORTER:The Church of England has said that it was mistaken on the subject of Darwinism and apologized to Darwin. What do you think of that?

ADNAN OKTAR:It is scientists with Darwinist mindsets who should really be apologizing. Because they have deceived other scientists, youth and all humanity for the last 150 years. They have hidden 100 million fossils. This is scientific robbery. This is the first point.They also hid the fact that proteins cannot form by chance, even though it is perfectly obvious. Many of the skulls they used are false. But they used them in scientific works despite knowing they were false. They used false evidence such as gluing moths on trees in order to prove their theories. They should apologize to scientists and all humanity for using this false evidence and for their deception. We will be issuing statements and announcements on this subject in the next few days.

REPORTER-INTERPRETER:We have spoken of the impact of the Atlas of Creation but what about its effects in Asia and in Muslim countries? Can a Muslim also be a Darwinist? Is such a thing possible?

ADNAN OKTAR:It is possible, of course. One can be both a Darwinist and a Muslim. One can say this is how I expound, this is my understanding, this is how I interpret the Qur’an. And I would see him as a Muslim. This is legitimate. There have been huge effects in Asia, in Russia. We have been highly effective in the Turkic states. And that impact is still being felt. These Arab states have also taken advantage of the internet to take up these ideas. This is very clear from the opinion polls. One can see a huge global impact. Only in China are we not able to have that much of an impact, because they have taken serious precautionary measures and blocked access to the internet. But in all other countries we are hugely effective.

REPORTER-INTERPRETER:Is it possible to be a good Muslim, and be a Darwinist and to believe in evolution? Or would you be a better Muslim so to speak, if you also believe in the Creation story as the Almighty tell in the Quran?

ADNAN OKTAR:It is possible, we cannot question why they believe in Darwinism. They can say they believe that Allah created in that way. Saying that does not mean they have abandoned the faith.

REPORTER-INTERPRETER:We have spoken of the 20th century as the time of World Wars I and II. We have spoken of the global situation. But do you also regard Darwinism as responsible for the moral vacuum prevalent today, people’s tendency toward materialism and the events of September 11 in particular?

ADNAN OKTAR:Absolutely, absolutely. Darwinism left a terrible mark on the 19th and 18th centuries. The 21st century, the current century, is when it will be cleaned away. If you have noticed, criminal organizations are already being cleaned up, false ideas are being cleaned away, and the communist system in Russia has changed. There has been change there. The world is purging itself ever more. Despotic, harsh, fascist regimes are on the way out and being replaced by moderate, liberal and reasonable ones. The world is constantly purging itself and heading toward beauty and goodness. As a result of that it will attain the very best, highest and positive point with the coming of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and the Mahdi (pbuh).

REPORTER:The Russian intervention following the latest crisis in the Caucasus has given rise to speculation about a new Cold War. Turkey is very close to the region where this took place. Should Turkey be following a policy drawing closer to Russia or should it continue with its old alliance with the West? Or is a third way possible? Turkey’s taking new initiatives in the region, the Caucasus crisis, the Caucasus pact, for instance, is not regarded seriously as that realistic in the West because it foresees several countries having no contact with one another sitting down at the same table. Russia is not talking to Georgia. Armenia is not talking with Azerbaijan. They do regard this that seriously. It would have been better for Turkey to say nothing. They say it would be better to remain silent than try to take an initiative.

ADNAN OKTAR:Your statement makes the importance of the Turkish-Islamic Union crystal clear. It makes it clear that Turkey has to emerge as a third power establishing a balance between the 2 superpowers, America and Russia. Turkey is a country that will fully deserve this power with its moderation, emotional warmth and rationality. Note that foreign countries, whether it be Sarkozy or other foreign statesmen, greatly admire this rational and reconciliatory behavior of Turkey’s. These are preparatory measures before the Turkish-Islamic Union. Let me say that the Caucasian Union will happen. Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia are all Turkey’s brother countries. They have all been broken off from us. There are Georgians all over the place in Turkey and our Armenian brothers come and work here. There are 30-40,000 Armenians working in Turkey. Or more. We are totally inter-related with them. And the Armenians are the Loyal Nations. The name makes it clear what they are, the Loyal Nation. But they have been imprisoned there for no reason. They are weak and troubled economically. Let the borders be opened up. Let them be opened up in Georgia and Armenia and Azerbaijan, and let them unite with Turkey. Let us have a splendid alliance. There will be splendid progress in all directions, economic, social and cultural. They will be better off and so will we. But this must constantly be proposed and kept on the agenda. These policies of enmity must be abandoned. There used to be a mindset that regarded Armenians as enemies, Greeks as enemies, Syrians as enemies. Nowhere was without enemies. It saw domestic enemies, too. Alawites were enemies, Bektashis were enemies, Sunnis were enemies, but this mindset that sees enemies everywhere is being replaced by a good one of friendship, love, peace and brotherhood. I consider that we will enjoy the positive results of that within the next 10 years or so. There is very serious progress being made on this. Very clear and evident progress has been made regarding the Turkish-Islamic Union. You can see this quite clearly on our and web sites. I can identify more than 20 major social events that have taken place on the road to the Turkish-Islamic Union.

REPORTER:May I ask another question? There are two axes in the Middle East for which the general Turkish-Islamic Union project is thought to be necessary, one being Iran and the other Saudi Arabia. There would seem to be Iran, Iraq, Syria with Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Palestine facing a block consisting of Saudi Arabia with Jordan and Egypt with relative support from Western states. Where should Turkey stand on this and how can it lead such a region?

ADNAN OKTAR:When Turkey acts as older brother there will be nobody in the region that refuses to accept it. Not among the Shiites, the Jaferis, the Saudis or the Iranians. For instance, when Iranian President Ahmadinejad came here he performed the namaz in a Sunni mosque behind a Sunni imam. What does that mean? It means, if you are the leader I will accept that. That is clear. He said, I have sent a clear message here. I have given an important political message, he said. What more need he say? Hezbollah will agree, everyone will agree. Nobody in the region will reject Turkish leadership. Because Turkey is a very moderate, lovable and reasonable country. Its people are respectful and well-mannered, very cultured and polite. And, as you know, it is a country that served as leader for many years. It has experience from Ottoman times. Turkey will emerge as the older brother of all the Turkic and Islamic countries. Everyone will see that. I am stating it here and will again put my name to these words in 10 years’ time. Insha’Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:I do not think there are any other questions. However, I can say a few things for our foreign guests. I sent Nicolas Sarkozy a copy of my Atlas of Creation. And one to Tony Blair. Both were very well influenced by it. Both have had serious changes of mind. Sarkozy, for instance, says: “It is atheism that has caused suffering, not religion. It is Almighty Allah in everyone’s thoughts and hearts.” How perfect. Tony Blair has said: “You cannot understand the modern world without understanding the importance of religious belief. Protect religion and help make it a force for good.” In another interview he said that he, “read the Qur’an in the evenings and has given copies of the Qur’an to famous performers.” These are just a few of the excellent results from the Atlas. Jacques Chirac sent me a letter of thanks. He sent me a letter of congratulations saying he found my book very attractive and successful. If there are no other questions I am now closing the meeting, with your permission, insha’Allah.


ADNAN OKTAR:I do not think there are any more. So, thank you all. It has been a privilege and an honor. 

2011-04-06 15:04:44

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