The Secret Beyond Matter

Adnan Oktar’s Guests from the Rohingya Federation of Arakan (11 December 2017)

Bülent Sezgin: Good night, we are starting our program with our esteemed guests from the Rohingya Federation of Arakan. First, I would like to introduce our guests. The Rohingya Federation is a London-based organization founded by Rohingya Muslims with the aim to find solutions for the problems of Rohingya Muslims. To this end, they are working in collaboration with international organizations such as the Organization for Islamic Cooperation, United Nations and the European Union. The organization is also active at the Arakan and Bangladesh refugee camps.

Now, I will introduce our guests. Our first guest is Ansar Ullah, the Secretary General of the Federation of Arakan. In 1993, at the young age of 6, he was forced to settle in Bangladesh as a refugee. He personally witnessed the persecution the Rohingyas. Upon this, he decided to give voice to the pleas of the Rohingya Muslims in the international arena.

Our other guest is Moulavi Mohammed Idris. He is a fellow Arakanese whose family was forced to flee to Myanmar. His family still lives in a refugee camp in Bangladesh. He is working towards bringing the ordeals of the Rohingyas to the agenda of the international community.

Our final guest is Ms. Rosa, born and raised in Dubai. She is a second generation Arakanese. She has not been able to meet her family in Myanmar. She is working in tandem with the Federation of Arakan to bring the condition of the Rohingyas to the agenda of the international community. Welcome.

Alkas Çakmak: Welcome brothers.

Oktar Babuna:  Now we'll start talking about the situation of the Muslims, Rohingya Muslims in Arakan and Myanmar. And also the Muslims in the refugee camps in Bangladesh. We know there are hundreds of thousands of our brothers and sisters in refugee camps in terrible situations in some of the camps around. So how is the situation of the Muslims there? We know terrible things are going on, we want to help them. And it's actually duty of every Muslim to help their brothers and sisters in any part of the world. So we have to struggle all together. Because in one verse in the Qur'an, Allah says, this is from the Qur'an: "What reason could you have for not fighting in the Way of Allah – for those men, women and children who are oppressed and say, ‘Our Lord, take us out of this city whose inhabitants are wrongdoers! Give us a protector from You! Give us a helper from You!’? (Surat an-Nisa, 75) Because of this verse it's an order from Allah to help all the Muslims in the world, all our brothers and sisters who are in a difficult situation.

Ansar Ullah:  Thank you so much. Now, at the moment in refugee camp, you know there are so many people. Also in Arakan, at the moment the military forces them to go into Bangladesh. Still they are coming, and there are a lot of people in one place, a very small place. There are 1,5 million people there. It's not easy in terms of living conditions and everything. So, there is a very bad situation there.  Also, there are international NGOs, and most of these are Turkish NGOs that help. The humanitarian sector is on the field, but they cannot control all the camps. Because it's overcrowded, too many people are coming.

Alkas Çakmak: Allow me to translate. As our brother said, the Rohingya Muslims are currently gathered in two places. Some of them are living in refugee camps in Bangladesh. There are some 1.5 million Rohingya Muslims there. However, they are living like refugees not only in camps, but in their homeland, in their own villages, their own cities as well, forced out of their homes by the oppressive practices of the Burma Myanmar army and the militia there. The fact that 1.5 million people are confined to such a tight space renders providing many services and meeting a lot of humanitarian needs almost impossible. Many international NGOs are active in the region. In fact, - as they have just stated when we were talking in private before- Turkey is one the countries that provide the most help to Rohingyas. Nevertheless, due to the fact that they are living in overcrowded and confined spaces that have been set up without any prior preparation and infrastructure, they experience a great deal of hardships. I had asked them before the program began, they witness the suffering there first-hand. They see what the people there are going through from a Muslim's point of view and personally face the challenges there every day. So I asked them to tell us about these experiences.

Oktar Babuna: As Muslims, it is our duty. Mr. Adnan Oktar has a book on this issue and he also has been calling on the international public as well as the United Nations and other humanitarian aid organizations for years to help our brothers and sisters in there.  Likewise, we have been calling on the Turkish state as well.

Mr. Adnan Oktar has been active to help our brothers and sisters who are in this difficult situation, the Rohingya Muslims there, since many years. And also he has a book about this as you know, about Rohingya Muslims. So he's trying to make United Nations aware and other strong powerful states like United States or European States aware of the situation and correct the situation. Now, we've heard there is also a treaty actually between Bangladesh and Myanmar to return these refugees, about 600.000 refugees back to Myanmar in about two months. Bangladesh foreign minister says this. Is that correct?

Ansar Ullah: They said there, but some of the details we saw, there is no such thing as going back like repatriation. So if they work for that we are not going to agree because we want to go back to our home. But in their agreement, when it was signed, they did not add such a clause. What? First of all..

Oktar Babuna: You mean Myanmar?

Ansar Ullah: Both. First of, they don't have any of our rights. Why do they force us from our country to Bangladesh? They didn't mention anything there. But we have our demands as the Rohingya, they force us to go to Bangladesh. If they take us back, we have our rights such as our indigenous rights, our homes, everything and especially safety. We need safety, and the United Nations should interfere. To interfere means they should come to our place and protect Rohingya people, they should act together with the UN peacekeeping force. Otherwise, if they don't do that, we have to live in Bangladesh. Then we have to accept anything that the Bangladesh government does. Without having the United Nations peacekeeping force, we cannot go.

Alkas Çakmak: "Now, there is the agreement in question, however the agreement does not mention anything about how the Myanmar government, army and militia forced us out of our homes. When they send us back there, we will be faced with a security problem. Because we will come under the control of the people that sent us to Bangladesh in the first place. The only solution to this problem is the establishment of a United Nations controlled zone. Otherwise, they will be putting the victims in the hands of their oppressors," he said. He added, "It was them who forced us out of our homes in the first place. We had been leading peaceful lives at our homes. The region has been home to our people and culture for centuries. But they came and forced us out of our homes at gun point, martyring some of us in the process, without giving a single explanation about why they did so. In that case, an exclusive international entity has to be formed there that will maintain the security so that we can live our lives safely.

Oktar Babuna: Now I'm going to give you some information about what Mr. Adnan Oktar has been doing about these problems. He has also been writing articles on world media. I want to give you some examples about that. For example in Gulf Times, he published an article about Arakan, in order to stop the pain in Arakan. And also in New Straits Times and Burma Times another article was published by Mr. Adnan Oktar. In Malaysian Insider, also he published an article about the problem in Arakan, about our Muslim brothers and sisters. In Tehran Times, it is the largest English newspaper of Iran actually, his articles were published. In Burma Times as well as the Arab News, articles of Mr. Adnan Oktar were published on Rohingya Muslims. But of course there is need for more efforts and we need the fundamental solution to all these problems. Of course it is like a symptomatic treatment in medical terms, such as to increase number of better refugee camps in Bangladesh, to provide monetary and humanitarian aid, food or medication. However, to solve these problems fundamentally, Islamic Union is needed. Muslims are in thousands of pieces all around the world. Our brothers are in problem there. But many people don't care about them in other Muslim countries. And there are internal conflicts in Yemen, in Syria right now, in Iraq, in Egypt, everywhere. So let's do an Islamic Union; Turkey, Rohingya Muslims, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, Algeria, all Muslims should unite and insha'Allah solve all these problems fundamentally. Not only in Myanmar, but also in Palestine and everywhere we see problems. Do you agree with that?

Ansar Ullah: Yes, I have heard that Mr. Adnan Oktar is a good writer who is active about the Rohingyas. I heard about that. So he is very helpful. So humanitarian issue is not our main issue, it's not the solution. Repatriation is not the main solution. Solution is a political solution, long-term solution. Long-term solution, or this political solution should restore our rights and our indigenous names and our land, our homes. It's like they took much of our wealth.

Oktar Babuna: So there's nothing left you can return to.

Ansar Ullah: Yes. We saw in the memorandum of understanding (MoU) signed there that they will make a camp, and put us back in a camp in Burma. They're talking about this with the Myanmar government. But, we are not camp people. We are indigenous, we have homes, we have everything. So, I think we need a political solution now. Within Rohingya people, we don't have any politicians. It must be Islamic countries, and also other European countries. Especially we need the political solution, as permanent solution.

Ms Rosa:  What we are trying to say is that we thank him for all the articles and the problem is that everyone has their own issues going on. So either they solve all the solutions in one place, or they have to go to different places. So what we're trying to say is that humanitarian sector is good, but we need a political solution for all the people. We are thrown out of our own country. We have a human right. We are also normal human beings. Before Muslims, we are normally human beings and we have normal human rights that we are not getting in this world. So what we are trying to say is that Burma is not only their country, but it's also our country and we have the right to stay there. But they're pushing, they're forcing us to go out of the country. Why is it so? It is that we want to live in our own country, we want to stay there. We have the right to stay in our homes. But what we need is security, safety and political rights.

Alkas Çakmak: Let me translate what our sister Rosa and brother Ansar Ullah said. Humanitarian aid can be worked out somehow; we can find the sufficient food to sustain ourselves. But what we have been offered is a life at camps. We have been proposed to leave our homes, the lands that we have lived since our birth, the lands that is home to our people for countless generations and settle in the camps that the Myanmar government will set up for us and subsist on the food that they will provide us. But this is not what we want. We want to once again lead normal lives as Muslims in the way that we deserve in the regions where we were born, where our ancestors lived. One of the most crucial things to do at this point is to reach a political solution. And to able to do so, the Muslim world needs to take action towards a political solution and form a cooperative movement, also including the European communities and other Western countries in this movement. Because we have long lacked a political people and politician culture.  We want the formation of a political movement that will support us that will restore our rights and ensure us to live us in our ancestral lands in the same way our predecessors lived.

Oktar Babuna: I'll speak first Turkish and then you can translate.

Mr. Adnan Oktar has been laying emphasis on this issue for years; Accurate political solution, humanitarian relief, medical aid. But Islamic Unity is a must for a definitive solution of all these problems. Because the issue does not end with Myanmar; Muslims are in dire straits in Iraq, in Syria, all around the world. Muslims are at war with each other; they are in a dire situation in Egypt too. For that reason, Islamic Unity really seems to be the only solution. Besides, political solution can only be achieved through an Islamic Unity. Because if the Myanmar government was not backed by the British deep state and the dajjal movement, would they be able to do this? Let's imagine that the Islamic Unity has been established. If all Muslim countries were united, could the Myanmar government dare attempt this? Of course, they could not.

For political solution, what ideas do you have? I mean emergent solution. There is an emergent solution, and there is a long term solution of course. You can give us some good evidence and supply some materials for emergent solution and for the long term solution. Mr. Adnan Oktar is always on your side of course. And we can make the entire world aware. Because his TV program is being followed by millions of people worldwide. Hundred million books are downloaded in thousand websites. He writes in 216 different world media agencies, newspapers. Everyday 5 to 10 of his articles are being published. So we can make entire world aware about this issue. So please tell us specifically, briefly of course, what needs to be done emergently and also in the long term.

Ansar Ullah: There is only one solution for us, to create a safe zone inside Arakan.

Oktar Babuna: But you said the Muslims lost their wealth there and the Myanmar government took them.

Ansar Ullah: Yes, we lost everything, but we want to live a life. If we go without safe zone, without peacekeeping force, we know it will happen again and again.

Alkas Çakmak: Oktar asked our guests to direct us on what we can do about the urgent solutions, as well as about the long-term solutions that will eliminate this problem for good and ensure humane living conditions for the Rohingya Muslims in Arakan. As dear Ansar Ullah stated in the beginning; "Our primary need is safety. In an unsafe environment, having food to eat or having our other needs met is only of secondary concern. And what will ensure the safety is the creation of a safe zone. He said that a safe zone controlled by the international community, the United Nations in particular, and a peacekeeping force that is out of the Myanmar army's sphere of influence needs to be created where our safety is guaranteed.

Cihat Gündoğdu: Brother Ansar Ullah, you're the general secretary for the Rohingya Federation of Arakan and you know more than us. Please inform us about the extent of opression that you're now facing in Arakan in numbers. What are the number of people who fled from Arakan to Bangladesh. How did it all get started and why did it get started?

Ansar Ullah: First of all there are, in Arakan, three Muslim major towns: Maungdaw, Buthidaung, Rathedaung. In other places in Arakan, there is not that much Muslim population. But these three towns are very big towns and also much of the Muslim majority live there. So, the Myanmar government has preplanned how to make these three majority Muslim towns empty. There are many natural resources, like Shwe natural gas, China is operating in Shwe gas.  And India is operating at the Sittwe sea port. Arakan's capital is Sittwe, there is the Sittwe sea port. So there are a lot of wealth, the natural resources. If they give us our indigenous rights, then it would mean that they will have to give us our wealth. Maybe our position and our wealth. On the contrary, they try to empty the towns, because they're already doing business in that zone. And we feel that.

Ms Rosa: Arakan is mainly full of natural resources, which other countries want to exploit, like China and India. And if they use Arakan for the natural resources, they can exploit it and in the international market the value is too much. And if the Arakan people, if the Rohingya people are in Arakan, then they will have to give our rights. They will have to give us, since we have our majority in Arakan and Arakan is full of natural resources, it depends on us. Do we want to give or not? If we stay there, they cant exploit the resources. We want to go in a flow, you know, generation by generation. But they want it for themselves right now. So we don't want that to happen. So that's why they are forcing all the Rohingya people to leave Arakan as soon as possible and exploit the resources there.

Alkas Çakmak: As our guests have stated, this is actually a part of the Myanmar government's long-term plan. It has been put into effect a few years ago. Essentially, its aim is to seize the natural resources, the coastal line and the port in the region, thus taking control of the regional trade and the riches therein. If the region is settled by the Rohingya Muslims when these natural resources are discovered, it will be hard for them to make this decision and manage the riches of the region. Therefore, their first action is to evacuate the three biggest predominantly Muslim cites, effectively eliminating the Muslim presence in the region. Thus, they seek to split the natural riches that will be discovered in the region and set up a decisions making mechanism that will serve their own interests, where the decisions are taken by themselves rather than the indigenous people of the region.  This answers Oktar’s question.

Oktar Babuna: Let's go back to solution then, the emergent solution. How can we increase the pressure on Myanmar government and the president to stop this persecution of all people, all our Muslim brothers and sisters? What needs to be done in the United Nations or in the Western countries? What else needs to be done? What documents can we use, what can we do?

Ansar Ullah:  First of all, we are persecuted people. We are persecuted Rohingya people. We don't have any power. So we just can say to the Muslim world and the Western countries ‘to see our problems.’ “You see our situation, so you may apply pressure to Myanmar government.” But, Myanmar government, they do not listen. They are just talking, these are not at all practical. Even for one thing they are just talking, but they are not putting into practice. We didn't see any progress. First of all UN fact-finding mission is not allowed in Arakan. International media is not allowed. International NGOs are not allowed in Arakan. Myanmar government is not listening at the moment. They say, 'Okay we listen, we will do that, we will do like this, okay we will bring back.' But no such thing is put in practice. The United Nations and UN Security Council should put more pressure on Myanmar government. And fact-finding mission should be allowed in Arakan state. This is crime against humanity and they should take this to ICC, the international court. We have loss of lives, many brothers- sisters. We have so many reports in our hands. So many people are dead. UN should carry out an investigation in Arakan. And more pressure should be applied to Myanmar government, also by the Islamic world as well.

Rozah: What we're trying to say is that Myanmar government has promised many things but it didn't have anything on practice. It's that in Myanmar they have promised many things, but international media has not reached Myanmar. If they have reached, they are not allowed in Arakan. And our problems are not seen in the international world. So what we're trying to say is that we want the international media and the world to see what is our problem happening in Myanmar. There are billions of people killed. And we have migrated from Burma to Bangladesh. It's such a condition that people cannot even think. Maybe there are people like seven days they have walked and through the sea road, they have gone by small boats. And most of that people died by maybe drawning, sinking and the boats have broken out. And people have migrated there with not even a drop of water in their mouth. So we're trying to say that we need international world to see what is our condition right now and education is not there because we have moved from one country to another country and the problem is there for so many years. So if the problem is going on how can a person go to school and go to study and have education. So education is the power as we all know and we need education for all our children. So that when they grow up they can stand for our rights.

Alkas Çakmak: His first sentence best summarizes the situation there. He said, "We are a persecuted people, and we have no power on our own. We need the support of the Muslim world to exert international pressure on the Myanmar government. So that they know about us and the suffering we are going through there. We need the support of the United Nations and its Security Council, as well as the international media to establish a unity here. Only through the support of our fellow Muslims can such an atmosphere be established. Because, as the verse you recited in the beginning reads, we are an oppressed people that hold no power. What we only need right now is support. He also called on the Muslim community to witness the persecution they are put through. And technically, to answer your question, not the Rohingyas in Bangladesh, but particularly those who still reside in Arakan, Myanmar are suffering genocide. We have many reports in our hands. We cannot get these reports through the international media and the Myanmar government does not allow them in the region. Other than that, regarding Myanmar, the United Nations... Welcome Mr. Oktar.

Adnan Oktar: Assalamu alaikom

Alkas Çakmak: Alaikom salam

Adnan Oktar: Welcome.

Alkas Çakmak: Welcome.

Adnan Oktar: I am honored by your visit.

Alkas Çakmak: It's an honour for us to have you our guests here. I'm very honoured and I'm very happy to see you here as our guests.

Ansar Ullah:  Thank you. We also thank you for giving us the opportunity for saying this situation.

Alkas Çakmak: Thank you for giving us the opportunity to voice the ordeal the Rohingya Muslims face.

Adnan Oktar: This is a religious duty of all Muslims.

Alkas Çakmak: So it is obligatory, it is religious obligation for all the Muslims to reach and help you and to make your voice heard all over the world.

Adnan Oktar:  What's your name?

Mohammed Idris: Mohammed Idris.

Adnan Oktar: Mohammed Idris, masha'Allah.

Ansar Ullah: Ansar Ullah.

Alkas Çakmak: Ansar Ullah.

Adnan Oktar: Ansar Ullah.

Ms Rosa: My name is Rosa. Daughter of Mohammed Idris.

Alkas Çakmak: Her name is Rosa, daughter of Mohammed Idris.

Adnan Oktar: Masha'Allah, Rosa.

Alkas Çakmak: Rosa, yes.

Adnan Oktar: Nice, masha'Allah. May Allah grant us His guidance, health and wellbeing to us all. May He accept us into His heaven. May He grant us the opportunity to see Mahdi and Jesus Messiah. May He grant us the opportunity to see the Islamic Unity established.

Oktar Babuna: We were not able to show your book before Mr. Oktar, should we show it? The book you wrote about the Rohingya Muslims titled 'Beautiful Rohingyas'. It has been translated to English among various other languages. And numerous articles you wrote on the same issue were also published.

Adnan Oktar: Yes. There is an ongoing violence happening in Rohingya, but this is a test from Allah.

Ms Rosa: Yes, it is.

Adnan Oktar: They also attacked our Prophet (saas) with stones. They wounded him on his cheek with a sword and chipped his tooth.

Adnan Oktar: They martyred Hazrat Hamza (ra), Hazrat Ali (ra) and Hazrat Omar (as).

Adnan Oktar: This is a world of trial, so these things will happen.

Adnan Oktar: Of course we will take precautions and continue our struggle against this.

Ms Rosa: Insha'Allah.

Adnan Oktar: The verses of the Qur'an clearly states that if there is an attack against any Muslim in the world, all the other Muslims are obliged to come together against this attack.

Adnan Oktar: The salvation of Rohingya, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, Palestine and the rest of the Muslim countries lies in the Islamic Unity. There is no other way to salvation.

Adnan Oktar: And for the Islamic Unity, there is no other way except the way of Mahdi (as).

Adnan Oktar: If there were any other way to unity other than the Mahdi movement, Muslims would have already united in the past 150 years.

Adnan Oktar: Muslims should not resist against this.

Adnan Oktar: There is no salvation if they see the Mahdi movement or Jesus Messiah (pbuh) as superstition.


Adnan Oktar: Offer some chocolate to our guests.

Adnan Oktar: Yes. Salvation will come in 3 to 5 years, insha'Allah. Major incidents will occur too, but salvation will follow them.

Ms Rosa: Insha'Allah.

Adnan Oktar: Rest assured.

Adnan Oktar: We will definitely pass this test.

Adnan Oktar: We will not enter heaven until we go through the same things experienced by those that came before us.

Oktar Babuna: There is no going into the jannah, the Paradise before the same things happen, what happened to the Muslims in the past. Muslims will then go to the jannah.

Cihat Gündoğdu: We will experience the same things people before us had.

Adnan Oktar: You have discussed the problems of our fellow guests, right? What have you talked about?

Alkas Çakmak: They told us about the current situation of in Arakan. They stated that if a UN controlled secure zone is not urgently created in the region, their safety will remain at risk and Myanmar will not put an end to their attacks on the people of Rohingya. A joint pressure that will be applied on the United Nations by Muslim nations can urge the UN for the creation of a secure one in the region.

Adnan Oktar: The Organization for Islamic Cooperation will soon hold another conference. We can convey this issue to President Erdogan. They can help bring a new proposal the agenda.

Ansar Ullah: Insha'Allah.

Adnan Oktar: Mr. Erdoğan is quite meticulous in this regard.

Adnan Oktar: His eagerness for the protection of all Muslims around the world is unique.

Adnan Oktar: The Turkish government is also very meticulous about this. Pray to God so that He grants His help to Mr. Erdoğan, insha'Allah. May God help him in his endeavors. We ask all Muslims to give their support to Tayyip Erdoğan.

Guests: Insha'Allah.

Adnan Oktar: He is currently the target of the British deep state and the Dajjal

Adnan Oktar: This is why we, the Muslims in Turkey, carefully protect him against their attacks, and we also ask for your support and prayers.

Ansar Ullah: Insha'Allah.

Adnan Oktar: He is putting in considerable effort for this matter. He is striving for an alliance in the region between Turkey, Iran and Russia. He is making an unprecedented effort. And everything is going well.

Adnan Oktar: He thwarted the plot of the British deep state.

Adnan Oktar: Otherwise, there would be no Iraq or Syria left.

Adnan Oktar: President Erdogan played a major role in the prevention of Iraq and Syria's fragmentation.

Adnan Oktar: We love you dearly and we have our undivided attention on you.

Adnan Oktar: We will do everything in our power for you; you are not alone and helpless.

Adnan Oktar: Thank you very much for your visit, I am very happy to meet you.

Ms Rosa: Thank you so much from our side.

Ansar Ullah: Thank you so much. Also we have a message for your President Erdogan.

Ansar Ullah: First of all we thank for all of you and especially Harun Yahya.

Adnan Oktar: It’s our duty.

Ansar Ullah: Thanks also for the people of Turkey and also the President. Our message is thanks and also lead especially for Rohingya.

Ansar Ullah: We don't know how because we don't have any leader. So that's why we have message for especially the President Erdogan, lead for us and help, don't leave us alone.

Adnan Oktar: He is doing everything in his power. He has his rapt attention on and is resolute about this issue. You can count on him.

Adnan Oktar: He closely follows these issues.

Adnan Oktar: We are aware of the issue too.

Adnan Oktar: May Allah help us all. May He render Muslims victorious. May He lay waste to dajjal and his followers. May God grant us His heaven.

Ms Rosa: Insha'Allah.

Adnan Oktar: We offer our love and respect to the people of Arakan. They can rest assured; we are always by their side.

Adnan Oktar: Alright.

Bülent Sezgin: We thank our guests. We will continue our broadcast with short clips.




2018-01-22 09:08:59

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