The Secret Beyond Matter

Live Conversation of Mr. Adnan Oktar with Dr. Wafik Moustafa and Priest Todd William Kissam (June 6, 2017)

Bülent Sezgin: We continue our broadcast with our esteemed guests, insha'Allah.

Todd William Kissam: It’s an honor to be here again.

Adnan Oktar: You honored us, you graced us with your presence. You made us very happy; it is a great joy for us to see our friends among us. You are very precious people for us. You are a blessing from God. In the Qur'an, God says that Christians are humble people, and reveals, "You will find the people most affectionate to those who have faith are those who say, ‘We are Christians.’" (Qur’an, 5:82)

Todd William Kissam: Thank you.

Adnan Oktar: But ignorant people do not know about it. Doing just the opposite, they oppose Christians. These people do not act in compliance with the Qur'an.

Adnan Oktar: How are you?

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: We just had this [incident] in London, you know. And people were killed by so called extremist Muslims.

Adnan Oktar: Did it happen again? Are you referring to what has happened the other day?

This is a terrible atrocity, vicious, brutish behavior. Let alone a Muslim, even an animal wouldn’t commit such an act. Killing very young, innocent children is untold viciousness.

They were pure, innocent kids. Even if they are grown up and guilty, this does not justify killing them. If someone has committed a crime, at most he would be put on trial.

We express our condolences to the families of the deceased. May God grant their families long lives.

Such untold pain and sufferings will be eliminated from the face of the earth with the appearance of Mahdi and the second coming of Jesus Messiah, insha'Allah. This is our beautiful goal.

Yet now we can feel their spiritual presence; good people have started to come together. For example, you are very fine people; you are people of love. We also advocate love and peace. Those who share the same views have been increasingly supportive of each other. This is great.

And now, the Qatar issue has come up. What should we do about this?

Dr. Oktar Babuna: We have not introduced our guests yet.

Adnan Oktar: Of course, introduce them.

Dr. Oktar Babuna: Tonight's guests; Dr. Wafik Moustafa from the United Kingdom and Mr. Todd William Kissam from Maryland, USA. Dr. Wafik Moustafa is a British politician of Egyptian descent. I would like to briefly talk about the institutions he is affiliated with; he is the founder and the chairman of the British-Arab Network. Also, he is one of the co-founders of the Inter-Parliamentary Coalition for Global Ethics and the ex-chairman of The British-Egyptian Society. Dr. Moustafa was previously nominated in the British Parliament and he has been representing the Arab minorities in Britain for 25 years. He is also a doctor of medicine and has written books on the Arab Spring in Egypt. His comments and remarks are frequently covered in the Arab and international press. Mr. Todd William Kissam is a Freemason as well as a priest affiliated with the Anglican Church. He has served as a priest in Washington D.C, New Jersey and Colorado for over 20 years, and currently he continues to provide priesthood in the state of Maryland.

Adnan Oktar: You are an excellent Christian. I appreciate this side of you. You are an ideal Christian. I also consider you as an ideal Muslim.

Todd William Kissam: Thank you.

Adnan Oktar: Yes.

Todd William Kissam: When hearts come to that foundational level, we were talking at dinner this evening, there is a commonality that brings us together and our love for Allah. And the People of the Book, especially in this season of Ramadan, it’s an exceptional time together. And I’m grateful to be here. Your wisdom and your words are incredibly healing.

Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah.

Your research are in-depth and your analysis are on to the point. What should we do about the Qatar issue? This has arisen as another problem.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: I think the Arab world in general is in a huge turbulence. Look at the countries in the Gulf: Qatar and United Emirates play a huge role. Although, Saudi Arabia plays a big role as a big country but the two small countries, the Gulf countries, Qatar and the Emirates, they are against each other. Because the United Arab Emirates have something against political Islam or Islamic movements like the Muslim Brotherhood. I think it is something deeper. Qatar supports the Muslim Brotherhood and supports its work and in a way supports democracy as well. Because the military takeover in Egypt was unjust and caused huge problems to its economy. The Egyptian economy; the Egyptian currency lost 150 percent of its value, which is very difficult to analyze how it lost 150 percent of its value. And it is controlled by the generals, by the army and it’s here to Turkey as well. So Qatar is close to Turkey. I think it can make this big connection. I’d be honored to play a role if I can. I’m closer a little bit to the Emirates and I’m closer as well to the Qataris. I think if we can clear this bridge, Turkey can clear bridge because none of them hate Turkey. The Emirates don’t hate Turkey and the Qataris like Turkey. So I think Turkey can play the bridge role between the two countries. Egypt is aligned to fight its own wars with the Muslim Brotherhood. I hope I put someway realistic and easy way.

Adnan Oktar: This will be great.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: Yes. There was another idea in my mind, it is to have a meeting. I will mention it when I have an opportunity in Al Jazeera television, which is Qatari. I may mention the initiative and say something about it. An opportunity is likely to come in next few days.

Adnan Oktar: Of course, we should do whatever must be done. It will be a pity for the people. We do not want people to suffer. Moreover, there is no point in rendering something that can be settled easily into an insurmountable issue. I have never approved supporting the Muslim Brotherhood unilaterally. I endorse supporting Egypt as a whole. Supporting a single group, a single community, will lead to division. It will lead to upsetting and offend other Muslims. Besides, this is not compatible with the Qur'an, either.

The people of Egypt are our friends, people whom we love as a whole. Islam does not make any discrimination among people; Islam teaches us to love people as a whole.

I believe that you will be very helpful in this regard. We should stay in touch.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: I’d think, for my sake, the Turkish government was being morally correct because the 60,000 people in prison are mostly Islamists. I think the Turkish government would do better if it supported the secular people, the people who are looking for civil government; Muslims, Christians or people who don’t have faith. But mostly Egyptians have faith; 90 percent of them have. So I think supporting two sides, not just Islamists. They would just expand, I’d like them to expand the support more than to shrink the support.

Adnan Oktar: Yes, I concur. The people of Egypt should be embraced as a whole; this is indeed what God commands in the Qur'an. We can not discriminate among Muslims. I appeal to and advise our government for forging positive relations with the Egyptian government. I express my opinion.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: Yes. I think that there will be difficulty. I believe that Turkey is the main Muslim power in the world. That’s indisputable. It’s the main power in the Middle East which can influence change. And I think they can use this lever irrespective that they have been fought by Egyptians, or else.

I don’t think that Saudi Arabia is against Turkey or Turkey against it. But Egypt is a big problem. If you can change from military rule to civil rule that will curtail the Islamists as well because you need fairness and fairness should be the bottom line. And the main principle to govern a country with 10 percent Christians in Egypt, we got people [saying] like ‘I’m a Muslim but I’m a liberal Muslim’. So I think if we have fairness, everybody would like this fairness, anybody would not stand against the fairness.

Adnan Oktar: Yes, my brother is a Christian and I hold him dear and in high esteem. He is also a Freemason. He is a brother in that regard as well. He is a genuinely humble person, just as God states in the Qur'an. He is a precious man of high moral standing. Insha'Allah, we will be side by side when Jesus Messiah comes, we will welcome him together.

In the Qur'an, priests are characterized as humble people. You are indeed a truly humble person. This is a miracle of the Qur'an.

Todd William Kissam: Thank you. We were speaking at dinner earlier this evening about the importance of institutions and this creates fairness within a society. Something that is foundational, to the Prophet, peace be upon him, that Islamic society is based upon honor and fairness. And to have any functioning nation, that would have to be the foundation.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: Nothing else.

Todd William Kissam: Nothing else.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: Having institutions, rule of law controls everything in life, and road to success.

Todd William Kissam: Justice, compassion, honor, all of these.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: That’s how is the West, and how Turkey thrived as a country became the most important Islamic country.

Adnan Oktar: Supporting the Christians in Egypt is crucial. God commands in the Qur'an that, Christians and Jews should be supported and watched over, even if they constitute 0.01% of the population, let alone 10%. Moreover, atheists, too, should be treated with compassion; it is our religious duty as Muslims to do so and watch over them. New policies must certainly be developed to carry out this responsibility.

Adnan Oktar: We should introduce you to people having authority in these matters. We also would like to benefit from your valuable opinions on the issue of Qatar and Egypt.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: I think it would be a very good step. Obviously in London, I’ve met these ambassadors and I found them very touchy and sensitive.

I am close to the two Gulf ambassadors actually and I am quite happy to be open with them because I feel personally and reading history and looking at the way forward, it is good to work together. They can’t hate each other. Because now two Arab countries broke their relationships with Qatar in the last 48 hours. That was completely counter-productive. And it’s not going to help peace and in healing the wounds in the Arab world by breaking relations. The order of the Middle East has got to change. There is no way it can survive. It is rotten to the core; military dictatorship, tyranny, prisons, no rule of law, no institutions. It has got to change. If it doesn’t change, it’s going to fragment. Because one thing we have to remember was the breakdown of the Ottoman Empire in 1917. People curse the Sykes-Picot Accord which divided the Arab world but even if we didn’t have Sykes-Picot, can you imagine how the world would have been formed with the nations of the time? There would have been tribal wars. What I mean is 100 years have passed since 1917, and they have not formed proper institutions to build up a country. It’s built on clans and a bunch of dictators, the deep state, what you call it. But Turkey here had a military coup and because of the people’s will and stands in the street, it was able to break the coups back. I’ve been living in Istanbul today, very peaceful city.

Adnan Oktar: Yes, Turkey is a modern country where the traditionalist Orthodox conception cannot find any footing. Of course, Atatürk did a great service in this regard. Our late leader devoted considerable effort in laying the groundwork for this matter. But I approve Turkey's of peaceful coordination with the countries of the world. I am sure it will be better in time. Should there be any roadblocks, we will overcome them together.

Mr. Tayyip Erdoğan is actually a modern person. He is an insightful, tolerant, broad-minded person with intellectual spirit but he also has to keep the traditionalist Orthodox Muslims in balance. He has to keep the Middle Eastern traditionalist Orthodox Muslims in balance. Therefore, he pursues a cautious, middle-of-the-road policy. One needs to also appreciate this aspect of the issue.

Should they get out of his control, some of them might turn out to be dangerous. He has adopted an attitude that neutralizes them and keeps them in check. Of course, backing him up will yield better, more effective results. I personally vouch for his modernity and intellectuality.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: I’m personally quite happy to support that. You said you would connect with the government because the good thing about Turkey is that it is not hated between the Gulf countries. It’s not hated. They may have differences in Syria, but generally speaking, nothing called a Qatari or the Emirates hate Turkey. Even the Egyptians do not. But the [Egyptian] government has its own attitude as you know, because it wants to hold them as part of the military. So I think we can, you know I’m quite happy to come for a special visit for this in the near future.

Adnan Oktar: It would be great. Mr. Erdoğan is a moderate and tactful person. I am sure you will see it for yourselves.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: I’d be happy.

Adnan Oktar: Yes, should you happen to meet with the Prime Minister Mrs. Theresa May, give her my greetings, regards and love. I know that you are good people. I am against the wicked people. The good people are in the majority while the wicked are in the minority. Yet they still prove to be effective. The wicked people should be corrected by convincing them, not by oppressing them. Everything will be great; a beautiful future awaits the world. We are going through a crisis for now, which will escalate in the upcoming years. But, this will only lead us to beauty. We will see those days altogether.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: We were talking about hate as an industry. Hate is an industry in the Middle East for a dictator to survive. We’ve just seen pictures you showed me about the mosques with the star of David. We talked about it: Hate is an industry in the Middle East. We’ve got to break this cycle because people do not. Christians, Jews, Muslims are brothers. They love each other. And the mosques, you showed me these pictures, those amazing pictures and we talked about, I can’t see any difference myself. Problem is education from the childhood, reading of the child. Like say, Muslims in the Middle East tend to think anything you’ve done is conquest but anything the West has done is invasion, attack or something. The negative, I think we’ve got to change to start education from youth, and get the dictators in a corner, lock them away. A bit harsh?

Todd William Kissam: No.

Presenter: I had shown them photographs of mosques in Istanbul where the Seal of the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) is found. He was excited to see these photos, seeing that Jews and Muslims are brothers. He said if he shared this photo on the Internet, people would claim it to be fake and not believe this is found in a mosque.

Adnan Oktar: The Seal of the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) is an important symbol among the religious orders. The Seal of the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) is a common occurrence in mosques. That is also present on the Ottoman flag. This is the seal of the Prophet Solomon (pbuh).

Presenter: He also said that dictators are basing their power on the hate industry and that we have to struggle against it.

Adnan Oktar: Friendship, fellowship, love; these are the Heavenly beauties that the human soul needs. It is astonishing that people choose to oppress and torment each other, to spend their lives committing such atrocities. But right now, there are many level-headed and reasonable people like you. We, the good ones, hold the power now; from now on, everything will be wonderful.

Adnan Oktar: I thank you for your visit. It was a great joy and honor to make your acquaintance. We should not lose contact. We should come together frequently. I utterly respect you and cherish you. I thank you very much for your visit.

Dr. Wafik Moustafa: Certainly.

Adnan Oktar: Now we can take a break.

Bülent Sezgin: We thank our esteemed guests for their participation in our broadcast.

2017-07-04 14:52:15

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