The Secret Beyond Matter

Adnan Oktar's live interview with Jewish Guests from Derusha Publishing (USA) on (April 14, 2010)



















ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, Oktar, you say it.

OKTAR BABUNA: Good evening dear viewers. We have guests from the United States.

ADNAN OKTAR: They can't show them at the moment, can they? Can they show them? Yes, carry on.

OKTAR BABUNA: We have Jewish guests from the United States and we are together with them tonight insha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, their names are Elana and Gil. Gil, and his wife Elana. Can they show them? Yes. Elana and Gil. How are they? Now you can tell me.

SPEAKER: They have publications on Muslim – Jewish alliance.

ADNAN OKTAR: They produce a magazine for Jews and Muslims to be friends. Where do they produce it?

SPEAKER: In the United States.

ADNAN OKTAR: In the United States.

SPEAKER: Besides, they have various other publications and a publishing house. And they deal in distribution.

ADNAN OKTAR: They have publications and a publishing house. Yes.

SPEAKER: And they publish your articles in their magazines.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. So they love Muslims?


ADNAN OKTAR: They are Jewish in origin, but love the Qur'an and our Prophet (saas), don't they?


ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, excellent. Gil, masha'Allah. Our Prophet (saas) used to let his hair grow and plaid it like you do.

GIL AMMINADAV: In Hebrew these are makhlafoth (tresses of hair). All of Israel used to be like this. You know Samson, Shimshon. It says in the Bible. His name was like this. It is like "the rays of God's light comes into your life and it becomes woven in part of the pattern [referring to hair tresses]."

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes. Our Prophet (saas) says he had two long strands of hair. Our Prophet (saas) used to let them grow down at the sides and plaid them from time to time. And he had a turban like you. Masha'Allah. The turban appears in the Torah too.

GIL AMMINADAV: We were just talking about this. This is a mitznaf (turban). Each of the priests, the cohanim, had garments that represented the human beings' relationship with the Creation as a reflection of Godliness. And we are called in the Taurat, mamlechet cohanim, which means a kingdom of priests. And really this is for all of humanity. But every Hebrew, every Israelite, would wear two things at the very least; the mitznaf, which represents God's providence and love all around you and the ephod (vest), which is a sign of your dedication and your service. And hopefully you will see more wearing them.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. They are really lovely.

Look. See how Islam resembles Judaism? The fact they resemble one another stems from their being the same in the faith of the Prophet Abraham (pbuh) and very ancient Sunna, insha'Allah.

GIL AMMINADAV: Yes, even more. It is a river and everyone drinks from the river. And some people drink from here and some people drink from there. But it is the same river. Beyond Abraham (pbuh), Ishmael (pbuh), Isaac (pbuh) and Jacob (pbuh) and all these beyond today, you have people drinking from the same river and know. Unfortunately, it seems we have seen a lot of people, unfortunately a lot of Israeli, has forgotten. We are supposed to be the people of memory but we have forgotten. But we are now remembering.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. Yes. Have you already asked them what they think about Islam?

SPEAKER: They are very positive. They explain that many verses are in parallel with the Torah. Allah knows best.

ADNAN OKTAR: Do they believe that Islam and the Qur'an are based on revelation? Did they say that?

SPEAKER: They believe so.

ADNAN OKTAR: Really?Masha'Allah. Then let us ask them. Have you already asked them?

SPEAKER: They have not made a clear statement, but their opinion was conforming to this.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, you ask them, is the Qur'an a Divine Book in your view?

GIL AMMINADAV: For me, yes. When I first started reading the Qur'an, it is hard to describe. It was like you touch the electrical outlet and it is a jolt. And it was a jolt that awakened many memories that were deep inside. And I don't think you can properly understand the Taurat without the Qur'an. I don't think you can understand the Qur'anwithout the Taurat. And it is same for the Injil. So yes, it is Holy.

ADNAN OKTAR: They are both delightful, these two. Really delightful. Masha'Allah.

They believe the Qur'an is Divine Scripture. Good, masha'Allah, excellent.

ELANA AMMINADAV: We also find that a lot of times we are looking forsomething called mussar, like instruction on how we can change ourselves. So when we find a Holy Book that teaches us or that points out things that might be problems in our people. Like things in the Qur'an talk about how the Jews might have worshipped their Rabbis. So then we can look at ourselves and say, why someone would say that to us, and that can teach us how to change and how to make ourselves better.

GIL AMMINADAV: And it is true.

ADNAN OKTAR: These two are really delightful. Or is that just my opinion? They are delightful, masha'Allah. Their voices are lovely, too. Masha'Allah.

Insha'Allah, we are in the age of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). We believe that the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) is imminent. Insha'Allah, Jews, Christians and Muslims will enter a sea of wonderful joy, excellent fervor and beauty. We will enter the Golden Age. We will see wonderful days, insha'Allah.


ADNAN OKTAR: At this moment we have 75,012 viewers on the internet. For your information.

GIL AMMINADAV: I hope they like it.

ADNAN OKTAR: They like it. Because their entries have really increased. Masha'Allah.

GIL AMMINADAV: Masha'Allah. One of the signs that God has given recently is that; the idea is being discussed for thousands of years the Sufis, Chassidim (Hassidic Jews), everyone, discuss the idea of the Beloved as our friend. And now people are starting to talk of this openly when it is most needed. At a time when people most need love and friendship, now people like yourself, and other friends, are talking about our common friendship. So I think this coming period of peace and happiness and love insha'Allah is close.

ADNAN OKTAR: Most delightful. His wife also looks most delightful. Masha'Allah. They are really lovely.

This will all come about in this century. You will see these in the next decade, insha'Allah.


ELANA AMMINADAV: A lot of people, they seem to have fear about the End of Days. They are scared, they think it is a bad time, a time of upheaval and chaos. How do you teach people, how do you help people to see the joy in the end of days?

ADNAN OKTAR: You are pleased about it, but many people are afraid, is that right?

This Golden Age, the time of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), is a subject that appears in the Torah, the Gospel and the Psalms. It is in the faith of the Prophet Abraham (pbuh). It is most vital. The deen of Allah will rule the world in the End Times. The true faith, Islam, will dominate the entire world. And all people will be happy. But it is important of a happiness that has never been seen before. That is why it is called the Golden Age. It is even said that people in the grave will envy the living in that period. As you know, that is in the Torah, too; a child will put his hand in a snake's burrow, but the snake will not bite that hand. There will thus be a time of happiness that has never been seen before. This happened in the time of Prophets, but was limited to small communities. It happened in the time of our Prophet (saas). The followers of the Prophet Abraham (pbuh) were happy like that. The followers of the Prophet Moses (pbuh) were happy, too. But this time it will include the whole world and all people. As you know, this, the age of the King Messiah, is described at length in the Torah. I mean, the age of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) is described in detail.


ADNAN OKTAR: Look, give some extracts from the Torah.

"... Son of David [Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh)]... reigned only over his couch..." (Talmud, Sanhedrin 20b) it says. The Messiah, the King Messiah.

"... And he [Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh)] will be called wonderful counselor" it says. (Isaiah, 9:6)

From the Talmud, " [Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh)] will not come... unless they will renounce their hope to be redeemed." (Talmud, Sanhedrin 97a). The King Messiah, in other words.

"Your eyes will see the king [Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh)] in his beauty..." (Isaiah 33:17)

"... He [your king] will proclaim peace to the nations." (Zechariah, 9:10)

"[Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) is] righteous and having salvation, gentle ..." (Zechariah, 9:9)

"... In faithfulness he [Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh)] will bring forth justice" it says. (Isaiah, 42:4)

"He was oppressed and afflicted", look here it says Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will face severe oppression. " He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth", in other words, Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) offends no one, he is mild. "Like a lamb to the slaughter" it says for Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). (Isaiah, 53:7)

Allah says that the King Messiah will not succeed through military force or money, but, "Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit," says the Lord Almighty for the King Messiah or Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). (Zechariah, 4:6) Masha'Allah.


ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.Masha'Allah.

GIL AMMINADAV: That is one of my favorite lines in the entire Taurat. "With My Spirit", not with anything else. "With My Spirit", not with the sword and not with the horse not with the chariot. You see the whole world is going to be filled with the Spirit of God.

ADNAN OKTAR: Definitely. Our Prophet (saas) says that Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will shed no blood and will not wake the sleeper. Nobody's nose will even be caused to bleed, not a drop of blood will be spilled, he says.

GIL AMMINADAV: We have a sheikh, a tzadik (righteous teacher). His name was Rabbi Nachman ben Feiga, very nice person. He talks about the flip (sudden change) from this world order to the next world order. Inthe blink of an eye. No guns, no tanks, no missiles, just prayer.

ADNAN OKTAR: I have great tidings for you. The King Messiah, Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), has already come.


ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. People will see all things I have said in10-11 years, insha'Allah.


ADNAN OKTAR: People will be amazed. Really amazed.

ELANA AMMINADAV: Insha'Allah in two years. I'm saying maybe in two years.

ADNAN OKTAR: In two years, in 2012. We are entering the age of Aquarius. In other words, the age of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) is beginning. True, in that regard it is true.

GIL AMMINADAV: There is one important thing that I almost forgot but God reminded me of, thank God. One of the other things that [Rabbi] Nachman ben Feiga taught.


GIL AMMINADAV: The same individual. How do I put it? There is an aspect of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) in everyone. It is an aspect that exists in the potential that has to be brought into the actual. We have a term for the Golden Age, we call it yamot hamashiach which means the days of Mashiach (Messiah) of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). You can easily say yamot hamashiachim the days of the Messiahs, when every human being realizes their full potential and I think we are going to see some miraculous, wonderful things with God's help insha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR: Insha'Allah. But both are very modest, aren't they? Really good-natured. Do they have any other friends like them?

GIL AMMINADAV: Thank God. God has given us many friends.

ADNAN OKTAR: They must come here, too.

GIL AMMINADAV: We were just saying over at dinner, "What do we have to do to get our friends to Istanbul?"

ADNAN OKTAR: Put them on a plane and bring them over.

GIL AMMINADAV: That's what we thought too. Insha'Allah, you will have lots of friends coming. And we have some of our friends who have been here and who have met with you. I don't know all of them, which ones have and which ones have not. But Istanbul seems to be a very holy city. It spans two continents and unifies many opposites. And you are here. And you unify many opposites, too. Masha'Allah. And so there needs to be, we see, who am I to say there needs to be? But we see more of a connection developing. So we are privileged to witness.

ADNAN OKTAR: Young Jews came. Maybe it was them.

GIL AMMINADAV: Ben Abrahamson.


GIL AMMINADAV: A friend of a friend of ours.

ADNAN OKTAR: I like Abrahamson very much. He is a very good person.


ADNAN OKTAR: My greetings to him if he is watching. I extend my greetings. I am sure he is watching. He should be watching, insha'Allah.


ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. I am sure he is watching now.

GIL AMMINADAV: Masha’Allah. Anddo you know Menachem Froman?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, I like him very much. He is a very mature, very good person. He is someone full of love for Islam and the Qur'an.

GIL AMMINADAV: We had the privilege of meeting him for the first time when were in Ad-as-Salam, this past time around. And he taught me at least, I cannot speak for her, but he taught me at least the meaning of compassion. Ar-Rahman, Ar-Rahim. From the rahim, the womb.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. He is a delightful person.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah.

ELANA AMMINADAV: Do you see a role of women in this coming age that you talk about. Of the women? How do you see the role of women?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. The age of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will be the happiest age for women, an age of the greatest joy for them. Women's joy and happiness will be obvious from their lives, their expressions and their behavior. The age of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), of the King Messiah, will also be the most joyful and happiest age for women. For them especially. We see this from the hadiths. They say a woman will travel to Damascus on her own. That means they will be totally free and secure. And they will be totally loved and respected. There are many hadiths about that. They will be safe everywhere and respected everywhere, as we can see from many hadiths.

Women are in any case the finest manifestation of Allah. Women and children are intense manifestations of Allah. Women are more more delightful than men, for instance. Allah's name as the the Most Merciful and the Most Compassionate are more manifested in women. They are treasures of affection. They are more loving, compassionate and protective. Yes.

GIL AMMINADAV: Masha'Allah. There is something I feel I should say. I guess it is just because I was reading through one of your books, and we have an idea of tikkun (rectification). It is like everything can be improved just a little, like a little fix. And it is really our fault as Jews for misrepresenting so many things, but here is an opportunity. So why not say? So we say three Barachoth (a type of prayer) every day. Barahah is not a blessing, it is an expression of appreciation to Allah, like you say "Alhamdulil'Allah", we have expressions. One of the three "thank you"s is for "not making me a goy (gentile)".

A goy (gentile). I will explain what they are, because, this is part of the problem.[The word] Goy is used by a lot of Jews in a very negative sense and it is entirely a mistake I think. Goy just means a nation. The Jews are called a goy just as much as the rest of the families of the world are called goy. So when you say "thank you for not making me a goy", you are thanking for a very particular thing. You are thanking for not making me an individual who does not realize that he is an individual or that she is an individual. These are expressions of recognizing the plight that need to be rectified.

When you say "for an aved", a servant or a slave has no self sense, has no ownership and also needs to be rectified. And the women need to be rectified.

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. Everyone is a manifestation of Allah. Allah creates everyone. Our souls and bodies belong entirely to Allah. Nothing belongs to us.

GIL AMMINADAV: We are all fakir.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, of course we are all poor. There is a verse about that, masha'Allah. It is Allah who is rich. He says we are all poor.


ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. We had no bodies. Allah created our bodies. He is the Creator. And our souls belong to Allah. For that reason, people who are proud and arrogant are doing that because of their lack of wisdom. Masha'Allah. Go on.

GIL AMMINADAV: We have an idea. It is a human idea but everyone expresses it, that arrogance is self-worship. It is when you make yourself an idol. And you see I very much like your refutations of materialism and Darwinism. They are very good. I like them, Masha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah.

GIL AMMINADAV: And the material, part of the idolatry today is idolizing yourself and it is also the downfall and it is the self-enslavement. Because when you see yourself as an object of worship, you make yourself into an object. So I think it is part of what will fall.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, masha'Allah. As you know, the Prophet Moses (pbuh) destroyed the idols. He destroyed that golden calf made by Samiri, turned it into dust and cast it into the sea. And, insha'Allah, we have destroyed the idol of Darwinism and materialism and cast that into the sea.


ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, he made a Golden Calf, as you know.

GIL AMMINADAV: Masha’Allah. One of my favorite Surahs in the Qur'an is Al-Baqara. There is, it is a key to understanding the Taurat and the Jewish people. You had the golden calf, and the golden calf fractured the soul of the Jewish people, of the Ben-i Israel. There was one antidote given in our tradition, the Midrash, our hadith. It is said that the parah adumah --which is commonly translated as the red heifer [red cow] but it is not correct-- Red cow is to give an atonement for this. Atonement means it helps you to rectify mistakes and be one with God. And it is always translated as red heifer, red cow and it is taught as red cow. But it is not correct. It is Al-Baqara. It is the golden cow, the safran cow. And you see the evolution in the Al-Baqara of the people's reconciliation with God. So when you throw away the idol of the calf, the man made golden object, and replace it with the living beauty of the Creation of Allah, which inspires and uplifts people's spirits. This is I think the sum of it.

ADNAN OKTAR: Insha'Allah. As you know, the Prophet Abraham (pbuh) shattered the idols. Our Prophet (saas) went and smashed the idols at the Kaaba. The greatest idol in the End Times is Darwinism and materialism. The shattering of that idol is a sign, insha'Allah, that the Messiah, Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), has come. As the vanguard of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), followers preparing the way for him, we have striven to discharge this duty this with all our might.


ADNAN OKTAR: That is enough conversation for this evening. Are these lovely people staying on?

SPEAKER: They are leaving in the morning.

ADNAN OKTAR: In that case, let them come in greater numbers the next time. Let's call a halt for today.


ADNAN OKTAR: Insha'Allah. Good evening to our dear viewers and listeners.

OKTAR BABUNA: Dear viewers, we wish you a blissful evening with our guests. Tomorrow, we hope to meet you on 10 pm again, good night insha'Allah.

2010-04-26 12:52:19
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