The Secret Beyond Matter

Adnan Oktar and Sanhedrin rabbis on live TV program (December 1, 2009)

Meeting notes on website.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: ... I would like to start our program first by introducing our guests. Tonight we have some Rabbi friends visiting us from Israel. This gentleman is Rabbi Hollander. Welcome Mr. Hollander.

RABBI HOLLANDER: Thank you very much.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: Rabbi Abrahamson, on the right. Welcome Mr. Abrahamson.

RABBI ABRAHAMSON:Thank you, good to be here.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: Rabbi Loebel, right next to me. Welcome.


ADNAN OKTAR: I imagine he would like to say a prayer, wouldn't he?

ALI SADUN ENGIN: Yes. Rabbi Hollander would like to start today’s program with a prayer. Yes please.

RABBI HOLLANDER: I have written a short prayer for the success of this meeting.

May it please you, oh God, that you bless this meeting, that we shall not make mistakes, that we shall continue and increase the understanding, harmony and love between us, and succeed in finding the ways of increasing the understanding, harmony and love between of our peoples.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. Insha'Allah.

RABBI HOLLANDER: I would like to give you a present before we begin. Before we start the events, this is from Rabbi Yoel Shwartz of Jerusalem, the seven Noah's laws, about the seven Noah's laws.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah.

RABBI HOLLANDER: And this is a book in Arabic and English, Light to the Nations.. This is our duties to the world. Here it is in French.

ADNAN OKTAR: Insha'Allah, masha'Allah. Thanks be to Allah, our Jewish brothers regard our Muslim brothers, Alhamdulillah, as muminun. That is they see us as the children of Prophet Noah (peace be upon him), as the People of Noah. They therefore regard us as brothers in faith. This is very excellent. As you know, and may Allah forbid, some Christians regard Muslims as unbelievers. But as a difference, Jews regard Muslims as muminun and believers. There are seven laws, as you know, to being one of the People of Noah. These are beliefs also accepted by Muslims, such as that you must not kill, you must not commit adultery and you must not worship false idols. In those terms, there is an excellent union between us, insha'Allah. They are also a community descended from the Prophet Abraham (pbuh). They are the descendants of the Prophets.In that respect, they are entrusted to us by Allah. The sunnah of our Prophet tells us to love, be affectionate toward and watch over and protect the People of the Book. And that is how our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) behaved. We also feel love and affection for them. Insha'Allah, all states will be independent in the time of the Turkish-Islamic Union. There will be the state of Israel, and so will the state of Syria, the state of Iraq, they will all be independent, but they will love one another very strongly with a spiritual bond, a bond of brotherhood. Masha’Allah


ADNAN OKTAR: Insha’Allah all the discomfort there is in between Israel and Palestine will also disappear.That is the era that we are about the reach. Palestine will be able to live in peace and comfort, Israel will be able to live in peace and comfort. All the region will experience brotherhood and peace insha’Allah. Christianity insa’Allah will also change their current attitude, they will insha’Allah see the Muslims as their brothers. They will approach them with love as well. Thus, this period that is close to the Doomsday, insha’Allah will turn into a beautiful, happy life, in peace and tranquility, in which no blood will be shed and all the weapons will be eliminated, a life that no incident will bust up and no man is hurt.insha’Allah. Masha’Allah. We have a duty as Muslims to respect all beliefs. We respect Christians in their own beliefs. They can go and perform their services in their churches. And we have a great respect and love for Jews. They can go to their own synagogues and worship. But there is a major snare of satan's here. Because some Christians regard Muslims as the army of the antichrist. And some Muslims view Christians as the army of the antichrist, or else try to set Jews and Muslims at odds, or Jews and Christians. This is a grave danger, making serious imputations in this way. On the contrary , we are to serve Allah, and the appreciation thereof lies with Almighty Allah. Allah will issue the finest pronouncement regarding us in the Hereafter. We have a duty to live as brothers and in peace in this world.

If you could set them in a queue to speak, introducing them by name, insha'Allah. Let us start with this gentleman, and then take it from there.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: So please, now we would like to listen to you dear Hollander. What do you want to say about today, this meeting, about what Adnan Oktar has explained to you?

RABBI HOLLANDER: First of all to begin with, I would like to thank Mr. Oktar for his most excellent hospitality, and for enabling our previous meetings which were so valuable to us, and especially for this meeting, which gives us an opportunity to respond publicly to his love for us, and declare publicly our love for him and for all people whom he represents. In particular we wish to express our thanks to the very diligent helpers of Mr. Oktar. Without their willing efforts on our behalf, our meetings could not take place. I would like to say a bit what this is all about from out point of view. We have been asked how do Rabbis, Members of the Nascent Sanhedrin in Jerusalem, come to make such statements? Well the truth is it is perfectly natural.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. Masha'Allah. Please go on. 

RABBI HOLLANDER: We have met Mr. Oktar, we heard about him before. Mr. Oktar is a philosopher, and a lover of humanity. Consequently he is a lover of truth, because every lover of humanity is a person who abhors war, who loves peace and harmony. But peace and harmony can exist only if the relationships between people are based upon truth.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah, masha'Allah, that is true. 

RABBI HOLLANDER: Now the Sanhedrin that we represent also has a major purpose of bringing peace and harmony. We are dedicated to this effort. Our tools for doing this are derived from the Holy Torah, given to Humanity by God, the Creator. In a sense, the Holy Torah is analogous to a User Manual to the great and intricate machine, this world in which we all live.

RABBI HOLLANDER: Mr. Oktar has, in his diligent studies, discovered the value of studying the Holy Torah for himself, for understanding the Creation, and for understanding Humanity. He has published an important book The Wisdom and Sound Advice from the Torah, and in his quest for peace he has published another book Islam Against Terror. It is a sign of the inherent goodness of humanity that so many of these books have been downloaded from the internet, have been read by so many millions of people.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: So meanwhile I would like to give the word a little bit to Mr. Abrahamson. Could you comment on the issue a little bit? 

RABBI ABRAHAMSON: Hello, my name is Benyamin Abrahamson. I am an orthodox Chassidic Jew from Israel. And I work as a historian or a kind of consultant to the court in Jerusalem that Rabbi Hollander is talking about. Mostly people here know me from my endless discussions about the similarities between the Islam and Jewish customs. I enjoy talking about the Hadiths, Tabari, Ibn Hisham and al-Waqidi, and talking about the kings of Himyar as I much as I enjoy talking about the Midrash Rabbah, the Midrashei Geulah, Rambam, Tosefos or the Shulchan Aruch. I like very much to talk about the common prayer customs between Islam and Judaism, about the similarities in architecture between the masjid and the synagogue, between the similarities of the calendar, holidays and customs. But it is clear to me that there is more than just similarities, that they obviously go back to a common root and a common faith.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. Of course, every faith has a duty to maintain that its own beliefs are true. Otherwise, a Jew could not be a Jew, a Muslim a Muslim, or a Christian a Christian. But respect for all faiths is also exceedingly important. It is the duty of a Muslim to respect those people's worship and beliefs, and to watch over and protect them with love as servants of Allah. But of course Almighty Allah has produced a path for everyone. That is what Allah has ordained, but we have a duty to live together in this world as friends and brothers, never departing from the path of love, affection and compassion, and never falling for satan's snares, insha'Allah.

RABBI ABRAHAMSON: So when talking about our common heritage in our Jewish literature, we are taught that there is such a thing as a common faith, a fundamental religion which all men are born into. And this is a basic faith which is obligated on all mankind. In the past we have called it by different names, yireh shomaym which means the people who have fear of heaven, ger toshav or bnai noah, the children of Noah, or during Hellenistic times in Greek it was called theosebeia, and according to the school of Rabbi Benamozegh, this fundamental faith is also called by the name Islam. 

In the Torah, everywhere that the word "Kenite" which means the children of Jethro, is translated to Aramaic in the Targum Onkelos the word used is Salamai or Musalamai. Some have suggested that this refers to the great numbers of non-Jewish believers who came to sacrifice the Qurban Shlamim in Jerusalem together with the Jews. Salamai, Musalamai, Muslimi. This could be a clear indication in our literature that Islam is an ancient religion, dating back to the time of the Second Temple or even earlier. And if Islam's roots, if the root of Islam are the same as what we call "Bnei Noah", then for us it is much older. This is the religion of Noah; this is the religion of Adam himself. 

The closeness of Islam and Judaism has always been understood by Biblical Scholars up until recent years. The close relationship with Jews, the ten lost tribes, the Arabs and Rachabites, all this was assumed to be true. It was only with the advent of German revisionists like Wellhausen and Büchler, and others, this began to change. They introduced ideas that Islam had something to do with worshipping the Moon, rocks or some asteroid that fell. But devout Jews know that this is not true. It is a fact of Jewish Law that we believe that Muslims are perfect monotheists. They worship the same God that we do. 

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah.

RABBI LOEBEL: (Praying in Hebrew before drinking)  Blessed are You, O' Lord, King of the Universe who has created all things according to Your word.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: He prayed in Hebrew. He does so before he drinks his water.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah.Yes, masha'Allah. Yes, Jews do have such an excellent virtue. They say a different prayer for every fruit they eat. I saw that when they were here before. That is very, very excellent, masha'Allah. They give thanks for Allah's blessings on every occasion. Like us, masha'Allah. In the same way we begin with the name of Allah, they begin by giving thanks to Allah. They have special prayers referring to Allah's blessings. We believe in One Allah and the same prophets. They also believe in the angels and the Hereafter, masha'Allah. But there is a difference between us, of course. Allah will pronounce on that in the Hereafter. But we have a duty in this world to protect and support one another. Because it is highly important that all believers act together against atheism, Darwinism and materialism. Because we are opposed by atheism, a grave danger. Of course we will try to convince them through love and affection, science and reason, rather than crushing them underfoot, insha'Allah.

There is no question of convincing anyone by crushing or hurting them, of course. There is no compulsion in Islam; the Qur'an makes that crystal clear. It must always be done with love and affection, insha'Allah.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: If you like we haven’t had the opportunity to take what Rabbi Loebel had to say, we can ask for that.

ADNAN OKTAR: But, was he not reluctant to speak because of his English?

ALI SADUN ENGIN: Yes he didn't want to speak at first because of his English.

ADNAN OKTAR: But then again, he can still say a few words. If he wishes so, of course.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: We can have a couple of words from you, at least your feelings. If you wish. Your feelings about what you hear.

RABBI LOEBEL: I feel very happy that Jews and Muslims know how to work together and how to talk -- in the very crucial way – about the problems of the new world, of the highly technical modern and its problems, we shall solve together in a way of tranquility and in a way of peace. 

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, insha'Allah. Ideas such as wiping the Jews off the face of the earth and destroying Israel are wicked and a violation of reason, faith and good conscience, and directly contrary to the Qur'an. Hitler committed this insanity, this psychopathic behavior, in his own day. As you know, he caused many innocent Jews to be burned in ovens or poisoned in gas chambers, to be crushed and killed for no offense. That is terrible wickedness. In the time of the Turkish-Islamic Union, insha'Allah, we will watch over and protect them with love and affection. We shall strive to ensure that this line from the prophets survives until the Day of Judgment and lives in happiness, insha'Allah. Everyone will strive within his own beliefs. As I have already said, the appreciation of this then lies with Almighty Allah. 

The same is valid for Christianity as well. I mean enmity toward Christianity and Christians is similarly something that violates reason and good conscience. They are also servants of Allah; they are also the People of the Book. Muslims also have a duty to protect and watch over them with love, affection and compassion; because that was how it was in the time of our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace). The People of the Book were completely at ease in the time of the Messenger, in the Age of Happiness. And, insha'Allah, they will again be happy in this age, and will strive together with Muslims in order to spend their lives in the most pleasant way, insha'Allah. 


TARKAN YAVAS: Masha’Allah, our guests are very much full of love.Masha’Allah. They are very much full of love and respect.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes masha’Allah. They were also very loving before they went. They all have high education. They all have careers. Some are engineers, some in high rank duties. But they are also Rabbis. That is excellent.That is also how a Muslim should be. I mean having a high education, a high level of general culture and if a man of religion, he should be able to perform his duties as a man of religion. That is the reasonable and beautiful thing to do. 

PRESENTER: As Mr. Tarkan had stated their love for you is really very deep. I have also watched the program myself. They really do feel a deep respect and a heartfelt affection towards you Masha’Allah. Your approach is very influential in that respect. Your positive approach, your peaceful and brotherly approach is highly important. No one has ever approached in such a manner to them or to the members of other religions. Isn’t that true?

ADNAN OKTAR: That is really unbelievable. Why should those immaculate, persecuted people be killed? Allah had named them, He named them the People of the Book. The Almighty Allah states that they will exist, He says there will be Christians and Jews. That is what Qur’an states, what Almighty Allah states. I mean they are not a group of non-existent people, they are a group that does and did exist. They were there in the times of our Prophet (pbuh). Thus within the community of the Turkish Islamic Union, they will be a first class citizen. The Muslims, Christians and Jews will all be treated with compassion. Why ever should they be oppressed? Why would there be attempts to oppress them, to drive them from one place to another, to make them suffer? It is not right to do that to anyone.  

2009-12-02 12:04:01

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