The Secret Beyond Matter

Mr. Adnan Oktar's Live Conversation with Prof. Lahoucine Khabid, the founder of Atlas Center for Diplomatic Studies in Morocco (A9 TV, May 12, 2018)

Bülent Sezgin: Our guest tonight is Prof. Lahoucine Khabid from Morocco, I would like to introduce him for our viewers. Prof. Lahoucine Khabid was born in Southern Morocco, he graduated from University of Arkansas and Utrecht University in Netherlands as well as Kwazulu-Natal University in South Africa focusing on International Relations, cultural diplomacy and conflict resolution. Prof. Lahoucine Khabid is the founder of Atlas Center for Diplomatic Studies in Morocco, where he serves his community promoting youth and women empowerment as well as promoting interfaith dialogue and the culture of peace. He has also been a guest speaker for local and regional media debates on politics and the Western Sahara conflict, combatting violent extremism and building inclusive societies. Prof. Khabid was nominated by the Swiss renowned Crans Montana as a Young Leader of Tomorrow in June 2015 in Brussels and received the 2016 Alumni award of the year by the European Academy of Diplomacy in Warsaw. He is also a founding member, together with imminent former President of Romania H.E. Emil Constantinesco and other UN diplomats, the “Multi track Council for SDG’s and the Culture of peace in New York”. Prof. Lahoucine currently lectures at Cadi Ayyad University in Marrakesh, Morocco.

Adnan Oktar: We are honored and overjoyed by your visit. Your work is very significant. Your areas of interest are even more significant.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Thank you very much Mr. Adnan Oktar.

Adnan Oktar: What is great is that you also promote the modern understanding of Islam, the Islamic conception held by the Companions of the Prophet (pbuh). In other words, you essentially share our view, which is also wonderful. So let's start our conversation with your questions.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: First of all, I would very much like to thank our big brother Mr. Adnan Oktar for all you are doing, for the promotion of cultural peace. I am very familiar with your foundation. I remember, a few years ago in Italy, an event was organized by the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy in Rome, the Italian Senate and in Vatican we were with your team - namely Dr. Oktar Babuna and his team. And also in New York respectively in the years 2016 and 2017 at the United Nations while we were working with other colleagues from various regions in the world on that same cause.

Adnan Oktar: It is excellent to hear that such matters are addressed in Vatican, the United Nations and other similar places. This would not have been the case at all. It means that, at the very least, the issue is addressed. This is vital.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Working on the promotion of the cultural peace is not a coincidence for Mr. Adnan Oktar. I have been dealing with your team as I said for the last few years. They just name the one but I want to give one myself. I learn today and last night from my brothers who picked me up from the airport and gave me today an exclusive tour of Istanbul. I have the conviction today that we are on the same path. We are promoting the same cause.

Adnan Oktar: Actually, if the United Nations and other similar organizations addressed issues with such a rationalistic and sincere approach, the issues would be tackled at an exceptional rate. The reason why people are so unhappy is the denial of God. The theory that has proved most effective in the worldwide denial of God is the Darwinian theory of evolution. It is impossible for a person who has been taught the theory of evolution to find happiness. It makes one utterly unhappy, pessimistic and loveless. Such a person feels certain -surely God is beyond such claims- that God and the hereafter do not exist; all religious rules and principles, the life itself becomes meaningless, leading to emergent suicidal tendencies. First of all, this venomous theory must be eliminated. This venom, which has a negative impact on the society from top to bottom, that dampens their spirit and leads to dismay and disbelief, needs to be stopped. This does not mean that Darwinism should never be taught at all; communism, Darwinism, all of these can still be taught, but their scientific invalidity should also be shown. There are about one billion fossils standing as the proof that life came into existence through creation. These fossils can be exhibited all around the world. Secondly, there is not a single proof the advocates of evolution can offer. This fact needs to be particularly emphasized. Thirdly, as supporting evidence, it is scientifically impossible for a protein to come into existence through blind chance. A protein needs another protein to exist. In other words, the probability of that happening is zero. Everyone is on the same page about this, Darwinists and non-Darwinists alike. This fact also needs to be told to the youth, to everyone. There are two disasters plaguing the Islamic countries. One is sectarianism and the other is Darwinism. The youth are constantly taught about them. These are the sole reason behind the unhappiness afflicting the Islamic community. Being happy is very easy. If the leaders of Islamic countries came together and made a joint statement about how the Qur'an alone is sufficient, how they would only recognize the Sunnah that are in line with the Qur'an, and the need to abolish all borders, visas and passports separating the Islamic world, and called upon all Islamic countries and Muslims to love each other, they would gain the support of the masses. Leaders possess the capacity to unite the entire Islamic community under their goals. I am referring to the current leaders of the Islamic countries. People would not raise any objections against such a beautiful call; everyone would heed it.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Thank you. From my years of following Mr. Adnan Oktar and the great quality work he leads, I think I would say that Dr. Adnan Oktar is one of the very few leaders in the world who managed to receive dignitaries, religous leaders from all the three Abrahamic faiths and that is very exclusive. So how would Mr. Adnan Oktar urge or suggest that the Muslim world could be united and through what mechanisms?

Adnan Oktar: If the Presidents of Turkey, Iran, Egypt, Russia and other Islamic countries came together and made a joint declaration in this regard to the whole world, the whole world would answer their call without objection. This can be led and organized by the Freemasonry, the Knight Templars, and the intelligence agencies of every country can assist them in this regard. The people are modest; they would never reject such a call. The issue would be dealt with at that very moment. They are giving a very complicated explanation of the issue, the problems and their solutions, whereas none of these is really complicated. They are extremely simple and easy to understand and address.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Does Mr. Adnan Oktar really think that there is a big difference between Shia and Sunnis and would Iran really be a threat to the rest of the Muslim world?

Adnan Oktar: Iran would accept such a joint declaration. However, the Sunnis are also very strict. There is a needless rigidity. There has to be a state power over the Sunnis and Shiites, as they would only pay heed to the power of the State. Otherwise, it is impossible to make the bigoted and fanatic people, the wayward listen to reason. But when they are told that 'this is the orders of the State', they will adopt a more reasonable and rationalistic approach. Of course, I do not mean all of them. For example, the President of Turkey made a statement that the Qur'an is sufficient and we acknowledge all the Sunnah that is in line with the Qur'an. Thus, he persuaded the whole Turkey and put an end to the issue. The Saudi Arabian state also issued a similar statement. They said, 'We were following an erroneous administration, belief, philosophy. So we renounce it and introduce extensive freedoms to women. Wahhabism is a doctrine imposed upon us from outside, and now we are renouncing it.' And the people approved it. That was the end of the issue.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: When the things which bring us together as civil society as scholars as diplomats and some of legislators is the Annual Summit which your foundation participates in and honors us all the time. We do organize this IPCG Inter-Parliamentary Coalition for Global Ethics in New York City and we do bring parliamentarians from all over the world through organizations which you know and we try to instill in resolutions within the legislations. Do you think is that enough just as you mentioned that it is the the responsibility of the State also?

Adnan Oktar: Secret meetings should be held at higher levels; it has to be sudden and unexpected. These should be closed-door international meetings. When we do so, it will bring relief to the whole world, the contrary will only lead to trouble and disaster. The wrongs are blatantly obvious and suggesting the rights would never be met with any objections. There is a misconception that the Shiites are discontented about the notion that the torment inflicted upon Hazrat Ali (ra) and the Ahl al-Bayt will not be avenged, that it will be forgotten. However, there is only one logical solution. Indeed, there is an injustice perpetrated at that time. And it will be perfectly compensated when the reign of God fearing people, Islam is established over the world. Therefore, there is no need for the Shiites to constantly mourn and suffer in this regard. The best solution lies in Islamic community declaring love, peace and brotherhood to the entire world. The world is riddled with ignorant and fanatical masses. They should not be paid heed to. States should issue statements first-hand to convince the masses and putting an end to the issue. The control of the vast majority of the world is left to people lacking the due intellect and conscience. The world is steered by their personal whims. It would be a grave mistake and cruelty to let it continue like this. These issues have to be dealt with on a higher level, not from below.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Looking about it in the Resolutions, the United Nations Security Council has anonymously adopted the Resolution 2250 which empowers youth to act as an essential pillar for the promotion of cultural peace. Today I had the privelege to meet with all your peers, very devoted young people trained to promote the nowadays’ Islam, the moderate Islam. Do you think the youth will really have a chance to be involved in promoting the cultural peace side by side with the goverment as you mentioned with the power, with the authorities within the country. Do you think that the youth really are empowered in the Muslim world?

Adnan Oktar: Europe is under the sway of Britain, and so is the USA. There is a secret deep state structuring in Britain. They also hate the ignorant Muslims and hold the belief that the only way to eliminate them is through pitting them against each other. They believe their total annihilation to be the most logical solution. These people may be ignorant, but they harbor no ill-will. If the state guides them towards the right direction, they can be improved to the desired level.

The Muslim youth in Saudi Arabia have a European outlook, but they are afraid of the organized movement of the bigoted. The same also applies to Turkey. A handful of fanatics can disturb the peace of the entire Turkish nation. Their numbers are not more than 100,000. Of course, this number is higher in Iran. Since Iran is experienced in military affairs, the counter-guerrilla structuring within the population, the number of people with homicidal tendencies is greater in Saudi Arabia. So, it is hard for Iran to carry out a single-handed move against them. It would be better for Iranian administrators to come together with other countries and issue a statement for the ease and freedom of the people. But the Iranian State should be protected against the counter-guerrilla structuring within.

Russia and Turkey can help in this regard. Even the USA can provide some assistance. By providing an extensive support to Iran and with all means, they can eliminate that harsh, bloodthirsty spirit. Iran believes that Hazrat Ali (ra) and the Ahl al-Bayt went through a terrible ordeal and they must be avenged. However, when the Islamic community unites, peace and brotherhood will follow, solving the issue once and for all.

In short, it has to be top down. The administrators of Freemasonry, Knight Templars, NATO, United Nations, and statesmen from Turkey, Europe, Islamic countries need to come together to take a mutual decision and implement it suddenly and unexpectedly. No one would object to this. This must be done for a modern Islamic conception where love reigns supreme. The statement to be issued would be prepared, simultaneously issued in all Islamic countries and the whole Islamic community would accept it. A slow treatment would prove fruitless. It should be a surprise, an immediate, top down decision.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Does Mr. Adnan Oktar think this could happen in within a long or a short term when talking about the immediate decision?

Adnan Oktar: A secret meeting should be held and the decision must be put into practice immediately within a short term. After announcing to the public the very valid, believable logic, reason behind the decision via all television channels, the due action should be taken from top down. Otherwise, we are on the verge of a system that will slowly consume the whole world like a tuberculosis virus. It has to be ended through a top down treatment.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Recently Mr. Adnan Oktar is following the link between Iran and North Africa. But my country Morocco has recently cut the diplomatic ties with Iran because of the support of Hezbollah, the Lebanese leading political party, to the separatist group in Morrocco called Polisario or Front Polisario or so the called Western Sahara. Do you think that all the mechanism that you have stressed and all the tools which you suggested immediate will happen if Iran is in conflict with North African states?

Adnan Oktar: It definitely will. Since Iran is marginalized in the world, it is forced to cooperate with communists to ensure its existence and remain powerful. But if the facts that the reign of God fearing people, Islam will be quickly established in the world in a legitimate and legal manner, that love will reign supreme on earth, that Hazrat Ali (ra) and the Ahl al-Bayt will not be forgotten are communicated to the people of Iran in a reasonable way, they will surely abandon these awful methods. They will no longer keep such an unfriendly and utterly futile stance that leads to nothing but bloodshed.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Does this interfere somehow with the early Wahhabi penetration in the Africa in the eighties?

Adnan Oktar: No, nothing would come out of it. Both the ideology of Iran and Wahhabism are not as powerful as they used to. Saudi Arabia government issued a statement, saying that Wahhabism was a belief that had been forced upon them from outside, and it is no longer in effect, effectively ending the reign of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia.


In short, a Mahdi has to be introduced to the Islamic community backed by NATO, the United Nations, and the leading figures of all countries. This will completely solve the issue. Besides, Iran has already been expecting the coming of Mahdi. Iran would never raise any objections and the whole Islamic community would embrace the anticipated Mahdi with great enthusiasm. A Mahdi conception that prioritizes love and is based on European ideals will mean a great salvation for the whole world, a heaven on earth. Mahdi is essential, no solution could be found without the Mahdi.

The Mahdi system is the most perfect system that draws from the best aspects of the European, American and Eastern cultures. Otherwise, this bloodshed, destruction, misery, suicides, widespread drug use will continue to make the world a living hell.

There is no reason to wait any longer. I do not see any reason why one should have any reservations about the Mahdi system. I believe that Jesus Messiah has already come and that we will all get to meet him. The Mahdi system means practicing the Qur'anic moral values as was done in the Companions' era. It means wiping poverty off the face of the Earth. It means wiping fear off the face of the Earth. It means wiping terrorism off the face of the Earth. It means turning the world into a heavenly place.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: So according to the words of Mr. Adnan Oktar, the Mahdi has a solution for injustice?

Adnan Oktar: This is heralded by the Prophet (pbuh), the Torah, the Gospel and the Qur'an. If religion is the whole point, then it is the religion that says so. For the Shiites, the Mahdi is the number one priority. Mahdi is the major priority for Judaism also. And for Christianity in fact, the Mahdi is depicted as a man carrying the water pitcher, namely the 'Paraclete'.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: So according to Mr. Adnan Oktar religion is actually spreading and not the opposite?

Adnan Oktar: Atheism is spreading as well. The power of the dajjal movement is also growing. Meanwhile, the true religion, the religion as practiced by the Companions is also spreading secretly. The old religious conception is on the brink of death, while the religion as practiced by the Companions is revived. But, atheism is spreading simultaneously.

Islam means modernism. It means love, joy, quality, happiness. It means a heavenly earth. It means people with smiling faces. It means friendship among all the people. And to achieve this, all that should be done is for all sincere politicians to come together and hold a secret meeting. But I do think that NATO will prove especially helpful in this regard. Both NATO and the United Nations. This is vital and Russia's support is also really crucial. This can be easily done in a really short span of time. But following the incidents that will take place in the next few years, they will have no other choice but do so. The world will become increasingly inhabitable and they will feel more and more obligated to do this.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: And how soon can we expect that according to Mr. Adnan Oktar? How can we predict that?

Adnan Oktar: In my opinion, it will last until 2022.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: And then the world will change?

Adnan Oktar: Yes, they will have to change, because at that point, the world will either commit suicide or arise from its ashes. Of course, arising from the ashes will be the obvious choice for the people. According to the Jewish belief, this century is the final period for the coming of Moshiach-Mahdi. There will be no other. They have convened the assembly of 70, namely Sanhedrin, which accepts that the Messiah-Moshiach has come.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Very good point that Mr. Adnan Oktar is bringing Judaism and Jewish civilization into this conversation. We recently have noticed that the White House and the American administration has decided after some twenty years of Congress approval over a law that the President Trump is going to move the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Is that a part of the change that Mr. Adnan Oktar is referring to?

Adnan Oktar: Yes. The reformation of the Sanhedrin, the assembly of 70 after many millennia and Jerusalem becoming the capital -which is a commandment of the Torah as well- are the unmistakable signs that the Messiah has come. The fact that Jews gathered in Israel and established a State is also the proof that the time has come for the Messiah's appearance, that this century is the foretold century.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Does Mr. Adnan Oktar think that there will be no solution of two states in the Middle East?

Adnan Oktar: There will be separate states, republics, albeit without any border restrictions. Passports and visas will no longer be required. The existence of small states is better, easier in administrative terms. It can be likened to a neighborhood where everyone has their own house but free to visit their neighbors.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: We know that all those six countries, Arab countries surrounding Israel today apart from Palestine has put up with Israel and most of them have signed treaties as from the Six Day War in 1976 or 67. Do you think that Israel one day will sign a treaty with Palestine according to what you just said?

Adnan Oktar: Palestine and Israel will unite. There is no need for them to remain separate. They are brothers. They are coming from the same lineage. They are the progeny of Ishmael and Jacob, both of whom were Muslims. Jews are also Muslims, just as Muslims are Muslims. The distinctions are completely artificial. The region is truly vast. They can turn the region into a heaven upon Earth and coexist in peace. There is a pointless envy, a pointless dispute.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: So people will be referred to -according to what Mr. Adnan said - the people will be referred to as nationals or as to their religious belongings?

Adnan Oktar: It does not matter. They can found a state named Palestine, for facilitating its administration. Everyone can have their own house, but everyone is free to visit their neighbors. The same logic I have just mentioned also applies here. There can be a Palestine state, but it is not for causing disputes or division; it will be an individual house, a beauty, a blessing for neighbors to visit.

But they may call it the United States of Israel, Druze and Palestine. They can unite under a single federative state if they wish so. Or they can form sovereign states. It does not make any difference. Those are merely labels. There can be a Palestine state, an Israeli state and a state that Druzes can call their own, if they wish. But they should lead a peaceful coexistence. On the condition of not being egoistical and selfish, there is no harm in them living in the form of separate, small states. Palestine can exist as an independent state, albeit as a friendly, brotherly neighbor. The same applies to the Israeli state, that should be for friendship and brotherhood. But being a state should not bring along troubles. Being a state should be a system that brings love and beauty. We can liken it to the European Union. There are sovereign states but no borders.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: I was thinking about the same thing as an approach. But going back again to the religious aspect and they just realized that major religions in Europe do not involve Islam. So Islam is involved in the Middle East. If we go back to Europe we know that Islam to Europeans and mainly to West Europe, it is a threat. It is a turmoil within the culture and it is also a potential terrorist threat coming up.

Adnan Oktar: What they describe is the traditionalist orthodox conception of Islam. The catholic Islamic conception is mostly like that, even if not in its entirety. They kill anyone who shaves his beard, along with the barber who shaved the beard. They consider women half animal - half human. They encourage beating women up as a way of relaxation. They encourage beating children to discipline them. They encourage executing those who do not give alms or who drink alcohol. Everyone is basically executed one way or another in that system. Sculptures and paintings are sworn at and spitted on. It is brutality. It is despicable. So Europeans are right in this sense. But the Islam as preached by the Qur'an and practiced by the Companions is the epitome of modern moral values and ultra modern beauty.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: So that is what stops Islamic movements in Europe from integration today?

Adnan Oktar: Indeed. These people despise art, even science. They do not believe in science, only religious knowledge. In a country that is not engage in sculpting, painting and music, and that curtail women's freedoms, that country is doomed to fall. Satan devised a system that leads Islamic countries to their downfall by their own hands, and these countries have fallen for his trick. The Islamic community is currently in the throes of death. Satan has laid waste to Libya, Iraq, Syria and Egypt. It has devastated Afghanistan. It has laid and continues to lay waste to many Islamic countries; and the other countries are next. By satan, I am referring to the dajjal. When I say the Europeans are right in thinking so, I did not mean that it is a justification for them to attack or assault Muslims. I only meant that their claims hold truth. The majority of these orthodox, catholic Muslims truly envy Europeans; they envy the Europeans' quality, beauty, rationality and pleasant lives. So, they seek to take away all these blessings that Europeans have through bombings, shootings and causing widespread disturbance. And Europeans fear and worry about the darkness of bigotry, and rightly so. Otherwise, the majority of the Middle Eastern youth, eighty percent of them, asks for the modern, high-quality Islamic conception. But the majority of the elderly are largely narrow-minded.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: I see that the young people not only in Turkey that I ran into but globally that they appreciate what Adnan Oktar says and does and some of them want to imitate his style. How does Mr. Adnan Oktar view nowadays youth and how they can promote the modern Islam or moderate Islam?

Adnan Oktar: I always say that this is a mirror system. Mirror reflects the rays coming from the Sun, which in turn reflects from one mirror to another. This is a system where hundreds of thousands of mirrors reflect the Sun rays to one another. For example, you, too, positively expressed how you are impressed by my ideas, for which I thank you. The Lebanese youth, for instance, are ultra-modern. Young girls always wear revealing clothes and all of them are Muslims. They do not allow any bad things to be said about Islam, yet they are indistinguishable from the girls in Paris or London. The same can be said about the Iranian girls, who wear headscarves as a formality. All of them are gorgeous, well-groomed and strongly advocate quality and the modern Islamic conception. If it were not for the presence of the bigoted, a large portion of the young Turkish boys and girls are ready to openly demonstrate all how they favor the modern Islamic conception. For that reason, our ideas have had an immediate impact in Saudi Arabia. A revolution has taken place. And now, they are advocating the same views as ours. This will spread to other countries as well. I believe that, in time, this will be the only view there is.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Are we expecting youth to be more free? Here I am bringing the approach of freedom verses oppression; I am referring to letting or actually giving a chance to young men and women to pursue their own customs and traditions as an example alcohol; for example hijab free women; also the couple life outside the marriage.

Adnan Oktar: The youth can pursue these in the best way possible among themselves. Since they know the Qur'an by heart, they will lead utterly pleasant and sincere lives within the conception of liberty prescribed in the Qur'an. When the youth have the Qur'an in their hands, they can better guide us in religious matters.

One day, while taking a stroll with a close friend of mine, I came across a fervent traditionalist orthodox man in Islam. He told me, "When the Qur'an is taken as the sole basis for Islam, adhering to Islam would become too simple; Islam would become a religion that is easy to adopt; they say this is what is reasonable, but it actually is a perversion. Because, then people would be utterly free and religion utterly simple, which is something we can never accept." This means that they, too, are aware of this fact. I think there was jealousy in his voice when he told that. But he cannot admit to it due to peer pressure. When the State eliminates the notion of peer pressure, this problem will be automatically eliminated. NATO, United Nations, Freemasons, the Knight Templars, even Rotarians, Lions, Dinners clubs, sects, communities, and of course above all, governments and States can achieve results in one week, ten days, maximum one month term by cooperating in this regard.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: I read most of what Mr. Adnan Oktar had said in his devoted work which I am honored to be given by Dr. Cihat in New York last year; Bigotry: The Dark Danger. So what about if the state is secular?

Adnan Oktar: The State does not necessarily have to intervene in religious matters. It is only responsible for ensuring the freedoms of the religious and their protection. In this way, atheists, Jews, Muslims, Christians can all live in peace, without worrying about any external pressure or intervention. The State will ensure their safety, act as an arbiter and will not allow any erratic behavior and oppression.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: My country Morocco used to be a great model for harmony and coexistence. As a matter of fact Morocco was the largest Arab and Muslim country who has had the largest Jewish community. Of course, the minority of Christians and others. But in 1958, something happened suddenly that Morocco had let the Jews go to Israel or Canada or US or other places; how do you see the role of the State in this case? The State should commit its duties towards its citizens regardless of their religious faith or religious belongings; or you think that the State has given up on its citizens?

Adnan Oktar: Did they tell the Jews to leave the country?

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: That was the debate, that was the question I would like to know. We do not know whether the Jews were asked to leave the country or they voluntarily left the country for some kind of a reason or for economic reasons.

Adnan Oktar: Yes, Morocco would not do this. It is immoral to do such a thing, saying 'leave our country' is wrong and cruelty. This is such a terrible thing, huge rudeness and also it is a crime religiously.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: According to the universal human rights code you can not ask people leave because of their faith because of their religious origin. That is a discrimination.

Adnan Oktar: But it is overtly indecency and cruelty even there is no such record. It is very explicit, clear.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: I have – I do not know if this is an honor or privilege or I am lucky - but I have been to many what they call as concentration camps; Auschwitz Camp in Poland, Holocaust Center in Florida in Miami and in another one in Durban in South Africa. Do you view that there really were concentration camps and the suffering was injured in those camps in Auschwitz in Poland?

Adnan Oktar: This is a reflection of satan's grudge against prophets' descendants. It is a historical fact that such treachery, cruelty was inflicted upon Jews, supported by explicit, clear documents, evidence, hundreds of thousands of witnesses, thousands of movies, documentaries and photographs. Insha'Allah, it will never happen again. Anyone who inflicts cruelty on Christians, Jews, Muslims is immoral and treacherous, there is no other explanation. Such behavior has to be strictly objected and considered as serious offense. For example, if there are people forcing Jews to leave in a county, this has to be considered as serious offense. Or Christians or Muslims. Even for atheists. These are blatantly immorality. Atheists are honestly saying 'I do not believe', not hiding, not making hypocrisy. These are going to be fixed in the next three-five years. You will see it.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Mr. Adnan Oktar is giving me high hopes. Being an individual who works on the culture of peace, and he seems to be very confident about this. And it automatically impacts me positively.

Adnan Oktar: Ignorant have no power, they are coward people with weak personalities; the wise ones have power and the world is ruled by the wise ones.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Does Mr. Adnan Oktar or doesn’t he see the characteristics which the Awaited Mahdi should have; doesn’t he see himself as an individual with all those gifts or grants?

Adnan Oktar: I see almost all of them. But I am fond of fun and entertainment. I dance and enjoy dancing with women. Mahdi cannot do such thing. I support Jews, the Mahdi never can do such thing. I joke with women wearing revealing clothes even I take photos while hugging them. Mahdi never does such thing. I sing songs loudly; Mahdi never does that. I am 33rd degree freemason from 7 different countries. Mahdi will struggle against freemasonry; I am a freemason how could I be the Mahdi? Also, I am 33rd degree Knight Templar. It is impossible. I mean the possibility of being Mahdi is zero for me.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: OK, two very good points that Mr. Adnan Oktar just made about the chances not to be the Mahdi. If it is about good life, the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) had also a good life, he was also a 'nabi', a prophet who also enjoyed the good life. If it is about the freemasonry, according to some research made recently, there is also the Khidr in Surat al-Kahf who had the characteristic of a freemason. So I see that there would be a possibility. Am I sitting in front of the Mahdi today?

Adnan Oktar: Of course everyone is obliged to desire to be the Mahdi, all Muslims. I am sitting in front of a Mahdi right now; you are also a Mahdi. And my friends are each a Mahdi. We will see the Awaited Mahdi this way; the one who will bring about the reign of Islam and be accompanied by a person looking very much like Jesus Messiah. Actually, this personage will be the Jesus Messiah. Then we will say that this must be the Mahdi, because this person has brought about the reign of God fearing people, Islam over the world. Moreover, it is not possible to claim being Mahdi due to physical appearance.

Since they make excessive emphasis on the topic of Mahdi and raise questions 'Are you the Mahdi?', I swore for about hundred times that I will never claim to be the Mahdi. But it causes an adverse effect; this time they keep asking this question much more fiercely. I do not know what to do. I say I am not the Mahdi and they say you are not the Mahdi, and we keep on saying the same thing to each other again and again. A sermon was given in all mosques in Turkey preaching that Mahdi will never come. Articles stating that Mahdi will not appear were published on all newspapers countless times. Certain religious scholars say that Mahdi will not advent on television non-stop. So, people became really suspicious because of their fear that the Mahdi would come. Therefore, almost 70% of the Turkish youth is expecting the Mahdi. If they were not afraid that much, there would not have been such a high percentage of people waiting for him. But there is no way out for those who do not await the Mahdi, Mahdi will definitely come. There is no means of escape for the dajjal. I do not have a religious upbringing, I studied in secular schools, I am totally sure. Both Jesus Messiah and Mahdi have come, they are alive now. No need for panic, they will see both in three-five years. Then, I want them to ask me, I am here, say that you told us so, but they will not. Insha'Allah.

Well, thank you very much; I am so pleased to host you. I hope we will meet more frequently and let us not loose contact; it is obvious that you are a very sincere, very wise and very honest Muslim. May God make you a brother of mine in His Heaven, may our Lord make you and I, Mahdi's students; may He make both you and I, Jesus Messiah's students. And, may God honor us by seeing the prevalence of Islam just like at the time of the Companions. May He grant us the blessing of strolling in the gardens of Heaven as friends.

Prof. Lahoucine Khabid: Thank you very much for your hospitality and for the very special time I had with my brothers today and yesterday. And before, the brothers I have met elsewhere for the last five or six years. And I believe as you said that even one of us will find Mahdi within himself as long as he follows the right path.

Adnan Oktar: Insha'Allah. God will send us an inspiration.

Bülent Sezgin: We thank our esteemed guest Prof. Lahoucine Khabid for his participation in our program.


2018-05-20 22:46:10

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