The Secret Beyond Matter

Live Conversation of Mr. Adnan Oktar with Rabbi Dov Lipman (Public Relations Director of the World Zionist Organization, former Knesset Member)

on A9 TV on June 21st, 2016 

Oktar Babuna: Our guest today is Rabbi Dov Lipman from Israel. He is the Public Relations Director of the World Zionist Organization. He previously served as a member of the Knesset for Yesh Atid and still plays an active role in the party. He regularly writes columns for the Israeli media. 

Adnan Oktar: Welcome. Thank you very much for coming. I’m honored. I’m very happy that you came.

Dov Lipman: It is so wonderful for me to be hosted by you. I’ve heard so much about you, your program and your audience. It’s an honor for me to be finally here and be in your presence.

Adnan Oktar: Masha’ Allah. We dearly love the children of the Prophet Moses (pbuh). Therefore, we love you too.

Dov Lipman: Thank you so much and we can feel the embrace. I always say as a people that feel very much alone, whenever we find friends, that people who love us the way that you do, it warms the heart.

Adnan Oktar: The future is very beautiful. We will see the promises of the Torah being fulfilled. We will see the beauties promised in the Qur’an being fulfilled.

Dov Lipman: That’s one of the most important things that we believe; that people from all faiths should be able to come together and see the fulfillment of their prophecies as one. We are all children of God and there is no reason for us to be fighting with each other, we should be working together.

Adnan Oktar: We are about to see the beautiful days promised to the Prophet Abraham and to his children. The foundation of Israel is one of the most important evidences of Moshiach’s coming.

Dov Lipman: I tell my children all the time, when they look around Israel and they see trees growing, that is Biblical prophecy coming true.

Adnan Oktar: True. Very beautiful. There is a lot of evidence. We will see the sprout of Jacob, insha’Allah.

Dov Lipman: I feel so blessed to be around people who understand that. This is something which is deep in our hearts and we wondered if people recognize it, and now I see that we have friends from other faiths who do.

Adnan Oktar: Some Muslims don't know that it is important to love all the prophets. Actually they should love all the prophets; Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah: They believe that we need to love only our own prophet. That’s why they are making this big mistake.

Dov Lipman: This is something which, I think it’s important for all faiths to look at what everyone else brings to the world. Everyone brings something special and meaningful to the world and we have to learn to appreciate what everyone brings.

Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah. The fact that God created you so talented, so intelligent, is also a sign. God brings Jews to the forefront in politics, in science, all around the world. This is a perfect setting created by God for the appearance of Moshiach, for the purpose of supporting him.

Dov Lipman: My hope is that we can use those gifts to make the world a better place, to use the science for medicine, to help people. The gift that we are given is to help others, both Jews and non-Jews, and hopefully we will be blessed to be able to do some.

Adnan Oktar: Your success is also Muslims’ success.

Dov Lipman: This is the meaning of the verse where it says ‘’...those who bless you will be blessed and those who curse you will be cursed.” The more that we can have blessing, and the more people can recognize that blessing, the more we can share that blessing with others.

Adnan Oktar: Yes. Because you are saying “La Ilaha Ill’Allah,” which means “God is One.” This is very important. And you love God very much. You fear God.

Dov Lipman: This is what we say a few times a day in our Shema prayer, which ends with the words “Hashem Echad - God is One” and immediately upon saying “Hashem Echad - God is One,” we say “v'ahavta et HaShem" "love God.” “God is One” but it doesn’t stay there, then we have to go and love Him and fear Him after that.

Adnan Oktar: God says in the Qur’an that, “in Torah there is light and guidance.” (Surat al-Ma'ida, 44)

Dov Lipman: I think we have to learn a lot more about those positive statements that are said in the Qur’an. Unfortunately for us, the Jewish people, we get negative statements here and there and it’s beautiful to hear positive statements like that.

Adnan Oktar: Of course. For instance, God says in the Qur’an, that you, the Jews will live in those lands, in Israel. This is a miracle. It is a miracle of the Qur’an.

Dov Lipman: It is really something that the extremists use the Qur’an to suggest that we shouldn’t be in the land of Israel and now I’m hearing that the Qur’an actually says that that’s the place that we do belong.

Adnan Oktar: They’re just expressing their own ideas. They have created a different religion for themselves. There is a big difference between the religion in the Qur’an and the religion they are describing. 

Dov Lipman: We have to try to help you get the word out and share together what the Qur’an actually does say because I think that will be a change in the whole region if people could follow what it actually does say instead of what they are pretending that it says.  

Adnan Oktar: Yes. Alliance is very important. It is crucial that we keep close contact, that we cooperate, love and respect each other. You have been loyal to the Prophet Moses for almost three thousand and five hundred years. God will certainly reward that. This is great loyalty. And you have been loyal to God. 

Dov Lipman: We've -just little while ago- celebrated a holiday called Shavu’ot, which is the holiday which celebrates the receiving of the Torah at Sinai. And the way we celebrate is, we stay up the entire night studying the Bible with our children and I say to them that for three thousand years we have been doing this. Can you point to other people who are sitting there with their children, studying all night, something which was transmitted to them over three thousand years ago?

Adnan Oktar: It’s great. It’s amazing that you are teaching your kids about religion. Those little cute kids, with those side locks and being raised religious. I just love them. You are doing great, by raising them as religious people. No one can hurt you, hurt Israel. Don't worry. You will live there until the Judgment Day.

Dov Lipman: Amen. This is, I feel that, I am sad, I’ll say it that way, I’m sad that we live in a world where Jew is put against Muslim. And hopefully we can work together that it shouldn’t be Jew against Muslim but it’s Jew and Muslim together bringing the idea of one God to the rest of the world.

Adnan Oktar: We’re very close to that. Don't worry. The radicalism has come to an end. In the past, there was no Internet, no television, no mass media. It was easier for radicals to fuel anti-Semitism. But now people are learning the facts and they are now embarrassed with anti-Semitism.

Dov Lipman: Actually one of the things that I did was I started a page on the internet called “Innocent Lives Matter.” The idea is to show that the jihadists, they are out to get all of us, it’s not a question of Jew, it’s not a question of this or that, we are all innocent lives together and we have to unite together to bring the truth and peace to the world.

Adnan Oktar: We are more powerful than all of them. We only need that alliance to form as soon as possible. Loveless people have no power.

Dov Lipman: What can we do from our side to help strengthen that alliance and also to bring the voice that you are sharing to the world? What can we do?

Adnan Oktar: We will have a lot of time to talk about that. But even this is something that will annoy satan’s supporters very much; namely our friendship, our brotherhood. This scene infuriates them. We value your belief immensely. You are very precious to us and it is for the reason of your faith, for your love for the prophets and your loyalty to the Torah.

Dov Lipman: As one of the things that we are actually seeing in Israel today is much greater appreciation for the traditions. The percentages of people that fast on the Day of Atonement and keep the laws of Passover traditions, people realize that that’s what defines the Jewish people.

Adnan Oktar: That’s an amazing development. They tried to confuse Israeli youth with Darwinism. My book on Darwinism was translated into Hebrew and was handed out in Israel. That was a great answer to those who don't believe in God, who favor an atheist worldview.

Dov Lipman: I actually wrote a book for children, for teenagers about philosophical questions and the first chapter is about belief in God and I basically show just the human body, the wisdom of creation. And there is no way a thinking person can look at the wisdom of creation and think that it just happened by itself.

Adnan Oktar: Another good thing about you Jews, is that you don't earn a living through religion. You all have your own professions, some of you are engineers, some are doctors. And you live religion sincerely.

Dov Lipman: That is our tradition. If you look back, all of the great scholars and all of the great rabbis had other professions. Maimonides, Nahmanides they all had other professions and religion was what their life was all about but not how they made money.

Adnan Oktar: That’s noble, that’s how it should be like.

Dov Lipman: Is this also the tradition in the Muslim faith that religion is the way you live your life but not how you earn a living?

Adnan Oktar: Of course. This is an important point made clear in the Qur’an, an important matter emphasized as the quality of the prophets.

Dov Lipman: Another uniqueness that we have between our faiths.

Adnan Oktar: Yes. But of course, there are regrettably so many people that don't really live like that.

We have held so many conferences in Israeli universities refuting Darwinism. They’ve helped greatly.

Dov Lipman: The percentages are showing that it works, because more and more are saying that they believe in God and I can tell you that sitting in the Knesset, the most powerful moment was at the inauguration, where they recited Psalms. And they realized that we give thanks to God for the opportunity that we have.

Adnan Oktar: Our friends always send me such good news and that makes me very happy.

Dov Lipman: One of the greatest moments for me was the Israeli football team was playing in England and they were showing on the television. And right before it started, they showed on the camera the star player, his name is Eran Zahavi, as the game was going start he put one hand on his head and one over his eyes and he recited the Shema prayer.

Adnan Oktar: Very beautiful. They pray in airports, on the streets. It makes me very happy.

Dov Lipman: I have always felt that this is something which we can learn from the Muslim faith, because sometimes as Jews, I have to be honest, I am embarrassed sometimes in public to put on the tefillin, the phylacteries in my tallit, to pray but then I see Muslims who wherever they are, they stop when the time comes to prayer and they pray. That’s something which I always felt that we as Jews can learn from Muslims who pray whenever they have to, wherever it is, without any shame.

Adnan Oktar: I have a book entitled “Wisdom and Sound Advice from the Torah” translated into English. Can you please pass it? Yes, Wisdom and Sound Advice from the Torah. 

Dov Lipman: I very much look forward to learning this.

Adnan Oktar: Yes, that book is for you.

Dov Lipman: Thank you so much. I apologize that I didn’t bring any of my books here. The next time we meet, I’ll have to give as a gift.

Adnan Oktar: I’d be very glad, very happy.

God creates these developments very fast. Everyday another good development is happening. These are the signs of Moshiach’s coming, of his appearance.

Dov Lipman: When I served in the Knesset, in our party, we had Jews around the table from all around the world, Ethiopia, Russia, America, Europe obviously, Middle East. That is the fulfillment of the prophecy of the gathering of the exiles, which we know leads towards the next step, which is the Messiah.         

Adnan Oktar: Please always keep us informed of such good news because they really do make us happy.

Dov Lipman: It is something which we see on a regular basis. For me as an American Jew, it is even more important because most people who came to Israel were running away from something. They were being persecuted so they came to Israel. We had a very good life, very comfortable life but we came because we know it is the right place for us to be and I think that is the final step, is when people aren’t running away, but they are coming because they recognize this is where God wants them to be.

Adnan Oktar: Of course. You accepted this beauty although it required sacrifice on your part. You will be there when the Moshiach, the Mahdi comes. This is how it is explained in the hadiths. 

Dov Lipman: One of my friends, when people asked him “why did you leave America to come to Israel,” he said, “I was always somebody who like to have the front row seat when anything was happening. And I want to be here to have a front row seat when Messiah comes.”

Adnan Oktar: Amazing. Your love for Moshiach makes us love you even more. We saw that [Israeli] soldiers were praying all together for Moshiach’s coming. And we saw that young people, even children loudly pray for Moshiach. These prayers bring blessings to you, your brothers and sisters, and all of you.  As long as you wait for and love Moshiach, as long as your love for God continues, no one can bring any harm to you. You won’t be defeated. That will bring you a lot of blessings. 

Dov Lipman: I am very fortunate that I have a son, who is 19 years old and he is studying now in Yeshiva, and the next year he goes to the army. And you have these soldiers who are religious, who are believing, who are faithful, who also will be there to defend and the two go together.

Adnan Oktar: We want to ensure that not even a single drop of blood is shed. This is what the system of the Moshiach is all about. Moshiach will not shed even a single drop of blood, will not even wake up a sleeping person. There won’t be even a nosebleed. All the weapons will be eliminated.

There will still be soldiers, but they will [do other things like] planting trees, helping people. They will be holy people giving a helping hand everywhere they are needed.

Dov Lipman: That’s certainly the ideal, I didn’t know till I was sitting here that this was a Muslim belief as well, so it warms the heart and strengthens us to hear that.

Adnan Oktar: The word “Israel” and matters about Israel are mentioned very frequently in the Qur’an. When the Prophet Abraham is mentioned, it is again a reference to the Children of Israel. When the Prophet Jacob is mentioned, it is a reference to the Children of Israel. You are the descendants of the prophets, and you are therefore mentioned in hundreds of verses in the Qur’an.

Dov Lipman: And it talks in the Qur’an about the Messiah and all the same prophecies that we have about when Messiah comes?

Adnan Oktar: Only equivocally, but the hadiths refer to the subject explicitly. They are very comprehensive; there are hundreds, even thousands of hadiths. Our Prophet (pbuh) said that Moshiach, Mahdi would look like the tribe of Israel, and that he would be a descendant of the Prophet Jacob.

Dov Lipman: It is so startling to know that there are people all around us who want to kill us and they use that same book for war while it really should be a book of peace.

Adnan Oktar: They don't accept the Qur’an. They don't really like the Qur’an. They only like evil, fabricated texts. The Qur’an is full of explanations that will eliminate their aggression. That’s why they always think that the Qur’an is inadequate. But of course, we still feel compassion for them too, and pray for their salvation. And we believe that we can also save them by educating, by talking to them.

Dov Lipman: I think it is also hard for them that one of the things that we are proud of in Israel is that we give freedom of religion; that everyone can worship the way they choose. That’s a big belief of ours and something we are very proud of. And I think for them, it almost, the democracy that we have, goes against, they want to say we’re bad people, evil people, but then we let everyone worship as they choose and we give rights and that’s very hard for them.

Adnan Oktar: All of them will be fine. Bad people don't really have any power. Step by step, they will retreat. But such people are also necessary so that Moshiach can appear. Such a society, such a world is necessary. Without them, Moshiach wouldn’t appear. That was the first stage, now we’re coming close to the stage where he will appear. 

Dov Lipman: That is a very big part of our belief that things have to be bad and difficult, challenging and even painful and then the Messiah can come.

Adnan Oktar: Without Pharaoh, there wouldn't be Moses. Without Nimrod, there wouldn't be Abraham. That’s why without anti-messiah the Mahdi won’t appear.

Dov Lipman: That’s what has to give us faith. It’s a fact that we know that after every dark moment the light comes.

Adnan Oktar: God is making us live through these beautiful days now. In the future, we will remember these days as glorious memories. I have a book entitled “Hazrat Mahdi Is a Descendant of the Prophet Abraham.” In that book, I explained in great detail and with reference to hadiths and Torah, how Moshiach and Mahdi is the same person.

Dov Lipman: I see I have a lot of reading to do from all of the books that you have written.

Adnan Oktar: Yes. All of my books are based on evidence and reliable sources and offer a sensible approach. I recommend that you have a look at them.

Dov Lipman: And that is the most important thing that, we are talking about the authentic sources and what tradition has always said and not something new, which people are coming up with today.

Adnan Oktar: Yes, because people can easily have doubts in the End Times.

Dov Lipman: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Adnan Oktar: I thank you, too.

Dov Lipman: We always were taught in our tradition that the coming of the Messiah is the time when all the different faiths will be able to come together and declare the one God, doesn’t say everybody becoming one in faith but everyone coming together and recognizing together the one God and the Temple of Jerusalem being in place where all people from all nations can connect to God.

Adnan Oktar: There is little time left before the temple is built. We will also build the Palace of the Prophet Solomon. We will rebuild both of them in compliance with the original ones and the whole world will witness this beauty. We will find the Ark of the Covenant and bring it to the front of the Temple. We will slaughter sacrifices there and their smell will reach Jericho.

Dov Lipman: We do certainly pray three times a day in our faith for the coming of Messiah in our two biggest moments of the year: at the end of the Day of Atonement and at the end of the Passover, we say next year we build Jerusalem.

Adnan Oktar: These prayers of yours are bringing great blessings to you.

Let’s start a hashtag campaign: What should it be? Let’s say, “love is the light of the soul.” Let’s say that, “love is the light of the soul.” Everyday we have a new hashtag campaign on internet focusing on love and everyday it becomes one of the top trends.

Dov Lipman: That’s, first of all, I would like to get involved with that, because I’ve recently learned about twitter so I would like to get involved with that, that’s first of all.

Adnan Oktar: We’ll be very glad. Please do join and invite your friends, too.

Dov Lipman: I would love to. And the second point is that, we’ve forgotten, the world has forgotten that the purpose of religion is love, love between God and man, and love between people.

Adnan Oktar: The age of lovelessness is over now. From now on, it will be the age of love. Next time you come, please bring more friends; let’s strengthen our friendship. Evil circles don't want the people who love God to be connected. But we’ll do exactly that.

Dov Lipman: I believe in that. I believe it is what we have to do. And I certainly look forward to coming back with many more friends.

Adnan Oktar: Insha’Allah. Let’s end this part of our program now. I’m very glad that you came. You honored me greatly, you made me very happy. Please give my love and regards to all friends.

Dov Lipman: I will do so, and if I can, I wish to all of your viewers a Ramadan Kareem and a meaningful and inspirational month of Ramadan.

Adnan Oktar: Masha’ Allah. Alhamdulillah. Thank you.



2016-07-09 00:36:00

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