The Secret Beyond Matter

Live Conversation of Mr. Adnan Oktar with Prof. Dr. Rick Love (The President of Peace Catalyst International,Associate Director of the World Evangelical Alliance Peace and Reconciliation Initiative) on A9 TV on June 17th, 2016

A9 TV on June 17th, 2016 

Adnan Oktar:Masha’Allah. Masha’Allah. Welcome. You honored us. It’s privilege to have you here.

Rick Love: I believe I am the one who has been honored. Thank you.

Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah. Please introduce our guest.

OktarBabuna: The Reverend Rick Love. He is a pastor known for serving as a consultant with fellow Christians in their relations with Muslims. He is the President of Peace Catalyst International and Associate Director ofthe World Evangelical Alliance Peace and Reconciliation Initiative. A few years ago Reverend Love gathered together hundreds of scholars and religious figures for “Evangelicals for Peace” summit to talk about how, as the followers of Jesus, they can work for peace. He has written books and many articles and given speeches about Christian-Muslim relations.

Adnan Oktar: Such beautiful titles, such beautiful efforts. You are a true follower of the Prophet Jesus.

Rick Love: Well I am trying to be a faithful follower of Jesus. One of his titles in the Bible is called ‘the prince of peace.’So his very person was all about peace. So yes. And I would just like to say, if I may, blessed Ramadan to Muslims everywhere and thank you for the great work that you are doing for the sake of peace.

Adnan Oktar: It’s a great honor, a great privilege. And we love you deeply because you love Jesus deeply. We don't want to see Christianity to weaken in Europe or in the rest of the world. We see that as a big danger. We are deeply troubled by the fact that churches are being shut down. That’s why we want to cooperate more with you to strengthen Christianity.

Rick Love: Well, I read your article,I was deeply touched. Thank you that I have a partner. We can work together for the sake of the Christians who have been persecuted in the Middle East.

Adnan Oktar: Yes, it’s important to strengthen and improve it swiftlybecause there is almost no Christians left in the Middle East. That’s terrifying. More churches are being shut down everyday in Europe. And we hear that sometimes churches are shut down and converted to clubs and other places in the USA too. We consider Muslim-Christian cooperation on this subject very important.

And we believe that Jesus has returned. We believe the time is now and that he will bring together the Christians and that Christianity will regain its strength it had at the time of the Prophet Jesus.

[A Muslim scholar] BediuzzamanSaid Nursi also said that Christians and Muslims should definitely ally. He said that if they remain separate, they will be defeated by disbelief, by the antichrist. But if they unite, if they act together, they will defeat the antichrist.

Rick Love: Yes. I think it is very important for most people to realize that Christians and Muslims make up over half the world’s population so if there is not peace and justice between our two communities, there will be little peace and justice in the world. So it is important that we do work together and be partner like this.

Adnan Oktar: I believe that the time for this is coming close fast. Said Nursi said that Jesus Messiah will lead Christianity once again and Christianity will go back to its original form as thecurrent of true religion, to the way it was when Jesus Messiah first came and that Muslims and Christians will act in a perfect alliance.

It is great that you are so strong and committed in your loyalty to the Prophet Jesus. It’s a great honor that at a time when disbelief is so widespread, you took on this beautiful duty and defend peace, brotherhood and love.

Rick Love: Well, we are trying to be faithful and I know that there are many Christians who are not good representatives of Jesus, so we are trying to do that [to defend peace and love]. If I may share a story, one of the things Peace Catalyst International, my organization, does is to get Christians and Muslims together. We are in about 15 cities in the U.S. and one city in Indonesia. A few years ago, we had a what we called “love your neighbor” dinner where my church went to the mosque and together wetalked about what theQur'an teaches, Islam teaches about love of neighbor and also what the Christian faith teaches.

Adnan Oktar: It’s amazing. You have an amazing duty.

Rick Love: What happened was so fascinating because Christians have not been as loving and protective of Muslims in the U.S. When the pastor stood up to speak about love of neighbor, he said, “The Bible teaches we are to love our neighbors ourselves, in fact we are to love even our enemy. But I want to be clear, you are not our enemy. In fact, we as followers of Jesus have not loved you like we should. Will you forgive us?” You could hear a pin drop in the mosque and the whole attitude changed as he reached out in love and showed humanity. It was an amazing time. And very powerful, beautiful relationships were formed.

Adnan Oktar: "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. … (Mark, 12:29-31)

'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment.And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' (Matthew, 22:37-39)

And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts... (Romans, 5:5)

And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. ….(1 John, 4:16)

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves... knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love...Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.(1 John, 4:7-11)

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to His commands. As you have heard from the beginning, His command is that you walk in love. (2 John, 1:6)

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. (1 Corinthians, 13: 4-8)

Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. (1 Peter, 4:8)

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I … can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, … but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.(1 Corinthians 13:1-3)

Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity. (1 Timothy, 4:12)

If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them.(Luke, 6:32)

If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? … And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others?... (Matthew, 5:46-47)

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. 'But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.’ (Matthew, 5: 43-44)

However, as it is written:“What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived”—the things God has prepared [in the hereafter] for those who love Him— (1 Corinthians, 2:9)

This is completely compliant with the Qur’an. The same exists in the Qur’an.

This is my command: Love each other. (John, 15:17)

This is why Muslims should read the Gospel, too. God says that it is a Light and guidance. Holy Light. God says this for the Gospel. It is a guide to the right path. That’s why Muslims should read these passages in the Gospel and the Torah that espouse love. They would be making a big mistake if they don't benefit from these passages. They are full of descriptions of love. God says in the Qur’an for the Torah also, that it is a Light and guidance. For this reason, it is very important that Muslims read and know about these passages that espouse love.

... If we love one another, [God's] love is made complete in us. (1 John, 4:12)

[Jesus:] "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

See, how Jesus set an example and taught how to love. He showed how to love, and became the perfect example. He says ‘love each other just like I love you’.

[Jesus:] "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." (John, 13: 34-35)

In other words, they will recognize you from your love, he says. “If you love one another, then they’ll be able to tell easily that you are my disciples.” Because love was non-existent at that time, Jesus taught it.

Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. (Romans, 12:10)

Look, they are told to compete in showing respect to each other, and toconnect with bonds of brotherly love.

Not knowing about these commandments would be a huge loss.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love... (1 Corinthians, 13:13)

Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtuesput on love....(Colossians, 3:12-14)

And live a life of love, just as Christ loved us... (Ephesians, 5:2)

Jesus Messiah was extremely loving. He loved everyone, he loved the lambs, the children, the elderly. He was surrounded by young girls and he showed his love to them. Jesus Messiah hadno bigotry. He was surrounded by young girls, young boys, old people and he loved them all. He was very humble. He washed their feet, for example. He brought a container, took off their socks, shoes and washed their feet. He wasn't arrogant, he had no sense of greatness. He was full of love. As you know, that’s why Christian priests still wash feet of others. It’s a tradition from him. It’s an exemplary virtue that the Prophet Jesus observed.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command [for God's sake]. Whoever has my commands and obeys them [for God's sake], he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by God, and I too will love him..." (John, 14:15, 21)

Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. God will love him...He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to God Who sent me." (John, 14:23-24)

[Addressing people who oppress Christians] Why do you persecute such people? Why do you expel them? Why don't you let them live? There are no Christians left in Iraq, in Syria. And many have also left Turkey. Greeks, Armenians … Let them live where they are, they will bring with them blessings. Our Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) took off his cloak and laid it on the floor so his Christian priest guests could sit on it. He invited them to his house, he would dine with them. He would also attend their dinners. This is true for the Jews, as well as Christians. We are to have a loving, compassionate, protective approach towards both communities. Are you[those people who are against Christians] happy now? Churches are being shut down in Europe, in Italy. They’re being converted into clubs, discos. Are they happy now? Is this entertaining? Is this something to be happy about? Muslims should help reverse this. Let’s say, there is a church building for sale. Muslims should buy it and then find, say, five Christians and tell them: ‘Here, please keep this church alive. We will pay for it, but keep this church open.’ That’s because God says in the verse that Muslims are supposed to protect monasteries, churches, mosques and synagogues. This is a verse in the Qur’an. How are we going to protect them? If you let them be turned into a club orplace of amusement, then you are not protecting them. This shouldn't be allowed for neither mosques, nor synagogues or churches. Anyone can easily find five Christians, right? You could say, ‘come and please be the pastor of this church.’ One person. The others will be the congregation. But make sure that the church stays open. It is terrible. Many people just watch it, but God forbid, they might regret it later. That’s why Muslims and Christians should swiftly build an alliance. Without further ado.

BediuzzamanSaid Nursi says: ‘Although defeated before the atheistic movement while separate, as a result of their union, Christianity and Islam will acquire the capability to defeat and rout it.’ We are going towards that time. Said Nursi continues:‘Then the person of Jesus (upon whom be peace), who is present with his human body in the world of the heavens, will come to lead the current of true religion.’The person of the Prophet Jesus, himself, who is present at the Sight of God with his physical body, clothes, shoes and hair. Said Nursi says that Jesus will lead Christianity, revert it to its original roots. Said Nursi explains this based on the statements of the Prophet Mohammed and based on the promise of Almighty Lord, in other words, based on the three relevant verses in the Qur’an. ‘As, relying on the promise of One Powerful Over All Things, the Bringer of Sure News has said. Since he has told of it, it is true, and since the One Powerful Over All Things has promised it, He will certainly bring it about. Indeed, it is not far from the wisdom of the All-Wise One of Glory Who all the time sends the angels to the earth from the heavens, sometimes in human form – like Gabriel appearingin the form of Dihya– and sends spirit beings from the Spirit World making them appear in human form, and even sends the spirits of most of the dead saints to the world with similitudes of their bodies, it would not be far from His Wisdom – even ifhe were not alive and present with his body in the skies of the world and had truly died and departedfor the furthestcorner of the hereafter– to clothe Jesus (Upon whom be peace) in his body and send him to the world, so to bring the religion of Jesus to a fitting conclusion;for such a momentousresult.’(Letters, 15th letter, page 56-57)

Can we learn about his thoughts?

Rick Love: I am deeply touched. I have never heard a Muslim scholar or a leader read so many amazing verses from the Gospel, from the New Testament. Thank you. Would that Muslims around the world follow you and your teaching because you are trying to follow Jesus and his teaching. Like I said, I’ve never heard a Muslim leader quote so many verses. On the lighter side, it is a challenge for me because one of the chapters you read is called the “Love” chapter and since my last name is Love,I am constantly challenged to live up to my name.

Adnan Oktar: We will insha’Allah, try to do that as much as we can. Can you fetch my book? ‘Pleasant Words from the Gospel’ in English. It’s a very comprehensive book, very good book. A gift for the gentleman…

Rick Love: Thank you very much. This is beautiful. I often hear Muslims say that Jesus is their prophet and they love Jesus but I don’t hear them read his words like you have just read. So I look forward to lookingat this and would that both followers of Jesus, Christians and Muslims themselves would read and live by these words. Thank you very much.

Adnan Oktar: I think this book will greatly help. No Muslim will object to it. They are all from the Gospel.

Rick Love: Amin.

Adnan Oktar: Please introduce us to your fellow Christians, clergy members and let us work with them, cooperate with them. Let us all put a stronger focus on the brotherhood and love between us. This is always on the media anyway and this way, we’ll be able to announce the Christian-Muslim alliance to the whole world.

Rick Love: Well insha’Allah, God willing I will introduce you. There are many pastors in America that are meeting Muslims and what Peace Catalyst does is get pastors and imams, and churches and mosques together. So it is still a challenge and I know you face the challenge here; not all Muslims are committed to peace as much as you are.

But you know Jesus said blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God. In other words, God promises a blessing on those who work for peace and He actually teaches there that true children of God are peacemakers. So, again I am grateful for this opportunity. You are truly a peacemaker and thank you for the book, these words. And I will continue to get Christians and Muslims together and hopefully we can work together in the future.

Adnan Oktar: We will resolutely continue with our efforts, with meetings, collaborations, and maybe large events with large attendance. Insha’Allah they will be very auspicious. Insha’Allah may God’s help be with us.

Rick Love: There is a beautiful verse in the New Testament, in the Injil. From the brother of Jesus, James, that says; “Peacemakers who sow in peace will reap a harvest of righteousness.”

Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah. Surat al-Ma’ida, 46-47. I seek refuge with God from the accursed satan.

“And We sent ‘Jesus son of Mary following in their footsteps, confirming the Torah that came before him. We gave him the Gospel containing guidance and light, confirming the Torah that came before it, and as guidance and admonition for those who have piety.”

God says this. God is praising Gospel.

“The people of the Gospel should judge by what God sent down in it(they should observe the Gospel). Those who do not judge by what God has sent down, such people are deviators.”

That’s why the return of Jesus Messiah is crucial. His arrival is crucial. Insha’Allah, it will be like when he first came. We will once again see him dine with his close followers. We will once again hug Jesus Messiah. Beautiful days are ahead.

Rick Love: May it be, insha’Allah.

Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah. I’m very happy that you came. I’m honored. I hope you’ll come again. Insha’Allah, we can have large dinner receptions even with more of your friends, with other pastors, and other Christian clerics. We can hold meetings where we can converse. And insha’Allah maybe one day, Jesus Messiah will honor us with his attendance.

Rick Love: I will pray and insha’Allah I will come back with some pastors.

Adnan Oktar: Thank you very much. I’m paying my deepest respect and sending my love to all of them.

Rick Love: Thank you.

2016-06-27 15:02:19

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