The Secret Beyond Matter

Mr. Adnan Oktar's Conversation with Mr. Joel Richardson (June 14th, 2013; A9TV)

A9 TV, June 14th 2013

OKTAR BABUNA: Good evening dear viewers. Tonight we have a very distinguished guest from the U.S: Christian, researcher and author Mr. Joel Richardson is our guest. Welcome.

JOEL RICHARDSON: Thank you very much.

OKTAR BABUNA: Please, you continue teacher.

ADNAN OKTAR: Joel Richardson is a sincere Christian. He is a sincere, devout person. He loves God very much and he is a well-intentioned person. Insha'Allah [God willing], he is an important personality that I think would be very useful for Christians and Muslims to forge an alliance and struggle against the system of the antichrist. Welcome.

JOEL RICHARDSON: Thank you very much. As always, it is wonderful to be here in the beautiful city of Istanbul.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. Please, you go on. I am listening to you. I am waiting for your beautiful questions.

JOEL RICHARDSON: Sure. Well, I wanted to just discuss with you some of the things we did discuss when I was with you last time. You are a very rare Muslim leader who has openly been calling for the right of the Jews to rebuild their Temple in Jerusalem. I just want you to share what led you to come to this particular position?

ADNAN OKTAR: The beauties of that time, the tranquility of that time, the joy of that time, the glory of the time of the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) is a yearning in every Muslim's heart. We want to go back to those times. We look to those ages because of the understanding of brotherhood, the understanding of love, the understanding of aesthetics of that age and because of our yearning for peace that would enfold the whole world. We want to build that House of Worship as a beautiful symbol of that time. Nothing is more natural than wanting to rebuild a place of worship if it is demolished. A Muslim is obliged to want this.

At this moment, the surroundings of that Place of Worship are very poorly kept. Some parts of it are filled with people inflicting pain on others, some parts of that region are like a dump, some parts of it are filled with cruel people advocating a communist way of thinking. A spirit that does not befit that House of Worship has surrounded it and that has been the case for a very long time. There is a reference to that in the Gospel as well. It has been said that people will pollute the surroundings of the House of Worship and that evil people will cluster around it. And surely enough, many people who do not appreciate the value of that Place of Worship have polluted the surroundings of it and they are in such a situation that they cannot give the beauty that the Place of Worship surely deserves. We think that at the time of the Mahdi the vicinity of the Place of Worship will be improved and those places will become immaculately clean. And we believe that the House of Worship will be rebuilt with all its beauty and with all its glory in that historical atmosphere and serve both Christians and Jews and Muslims. And in these days, we will be making an intensive effort to this end, insha'Allah.

JOEL RICHARDSON: Wonderful. Thank you very much. You have warm relationships with various other Muslim leaders throughout the nation. Nakshibendi Muslim sheikhs and so forth. Have you ever discussed this particular issue with any other Muslim leaders? Have you received positive response? You seem to be the only Muslim leader that I am aware of that has been calling for this specific issue.

ADNAN OKTAR: I am the only one [Muslim leader] in the world who wants to have the Prophet Solomon's House of Worship rebuilt, that is true. I am the only one who says that as a Muslim.

For instance in Gospel, in the Book of Daniel 9:27 "And he [the leader that will be coming- the antichrist-dajjal] shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering." At this moment neither Christians, nor Jews or Muslims are able to worship in that Place of Worship. Neither Jews, nor Muslims can slaughter their sacrifices there. That shows the initiation of this scourge. At the time of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh)—and we believe that we are at the time of Hazrat Mahdi—both sacrifices and offerings will be set free. Those will be among of the first acts of Hazrat Mahdi; the rebuilding of the Prophet Solomon's House of Worship, freeing of sacrifices and offerings, and opening it for believers to perform their prayers.

"Destructive people will cause desolation on the pinnacle until it is complete and what has been decreed is poured out on the desolator." (Book of Daniel 9:27) There are destructive people around the House of Worship in the upper sections at this moment, for instance there are people who keep iron sticks and stones. There are people who keep filthy, dirty, disgusting things. It is like a dump around there. Many places around it are in a very bad situation. Hazrat Mahdi will get rid of all those; and make those places all clean, like a flower garden, all beautiful and pleasant. And Jews will be able to perform their religious practices as they like, and so will Christians and Muslims. I believe that we are in such a time, I believe that in this century that House of Worship will be rebuilt.

ADNAN OKTAR: For instance in the Gospel, in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Jesus Christ (pbuh) says; "Do not let anyone deceive you in any way... " That means, do not let them deceive you with Darwinism, materialism or irreligiousness. "... for it will not come unless the rebellion takes place first..." And this has happened in the world now; Darwinism, materialism, atheism has engulfed the whole world and they've made Christians became Darwinists and materialists, a big portion of them. They've turned a great portion of Muslims and Jews into Darwinists and materialists as well. They made them far removed from religion. "… and the man of sin, who is destined for destruction, is revealed." And that is the antichrist; the communist way of thinking, the Darwinist materialist way of thinking will be annihilated. The Gospel draws attention to that. "... and the man of sin, who is destined for destruction, is revealed." Rather than a single individual; that is more like the complete annihilation of the atheist way of thinking, the system that denies belief in God. That means first will come Darwinism, materialism will appear next and then Darwinism and materialism will be annihilated. "... and the man of sin, who is destined for destruction, is revealed." Its destruction means the annihilation of Darwinism, materialism. The Gospel defines the annihilation of Darwinism and materialism as their destruction. "... the man of sin," is Darwinism, materialism and Marxist way of thinking. "... is revealed." it is said, and it has already been revealed now. "... for it will not come unless..." That means that day has come. "He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god and object of worship." Darwinists are going against God everywhere, materialists are going against God everywhere, communists as well. And that explains it perfectly. Look; "He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god and object of worship." That is because atheists and communists go against Islam, Judaism and Christianity. From this statement we understand that those days have come. "[he- antichrist] exalts himself above"; The Marxist way of thinking regards itself above everything. It regards itself above Christianity, Judaism and Islam and it regards all of them as false, radical thoughts. "As a result, he seats himself in the sanctuary of God and himself declares that he is God." Abdullah Ocalan, for instance, declared himself to be a deity, many communist leaders declare themselves as gods. "The seats himself in the sanctuary of God..." The House of Worship is all wrecked at this moment. I mean, the Prophet Solomon's House of Worship is wrecked and neither Muslims, nor Christians are determinant there, nor can Jews be effective; Darwinists and materialists have a dominion there. Consequently the House of Worship cannot be used at this moment. The Gospel has drawn attention to this point.

JOEL RICHARDSON: Okay. It is interesting that you mention that the Temple will be rebuilt specifically under the career of the Mahdi. Throughout the Middle East, there is a yearning and longing, throughout the world, for some sort of elusive peace agreement, some type of program that would cause the state of Israel and the Palestinian people to come to some solution to the ongoing conflict. Do you also believe that it will only be through the mediation of the Mahdi that the Israelis and the Palestinians will actually find this peace?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, that is not possible without Hazrat Mahdi. I mean neither the Palestinian government would have such an approach, nor the Israeli government. However this truth, this beauty will be established under the leadership of Hazrat Mahdi. That is what is related in the hadiths as well, this is the way our Prophet (saas) mentions it in his hadiths.

JOEL RICHARDSON: Okay. Thank you. You've also been one of the very few Muslim leaders that has correctly spoken of the fact that the Qur'an affirms the fact that God gave the land to the Jews, gave the Promised Land to the Jewish people. This is clearly referred to in the Qur'an, in a few occasions. Yet the overwhelming majority of Muslim world seems to ignore these passages within the Qur'an. I am aware of, for instance, Sheikh Hadi Abdul Palazzi from Italy that has spoken about this. Are you aware of any Muslims, Muslim leaders that are beginning to acknowledge the fact that the land does in fact belong to the Jewish people?

ADNAN OKTAR: Well, doubtlessly there should be others, but me and my friends have voiced this command of God openly and explicitly in the most sound, most understandable way, in such a way that can reach large masses. It must have been pronounced before, definitely, but they could only make this truth heard by a very few people on a very narrow platform. We have thus made it heard by millions of people.

JOEL RICHARDSON: Yes. I am grateful for anyone who is calling Muslims to reject the false notion that the Land doesn't belong to the Jews. And in fact, God clearly has given it to them whether they are faithful or unfaithful, this is an eternal promise that He has guaranteed. And in the end He will both make the Jewish people fully righteous and He will plant them in the Land forever with the Messiah ruling from Jerusalem over the nations with all of the nations streaming up to Jerusalem each year to worship.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, King Messiah has been anticipated for about four thousand years. The time has come. The founding of the state of Israel is a portent of it anyway. The founding of the state of Israel is the portent of the appearance of the King Messiah. There is an intense inclination towards religion among Jews and that also is a portent of the appearance of King Messiah. Bediuzzaman Said Nursi has very comprehensively explained that Hazrat Mahdi will be active in the world in alliance with Christians and put away the atheist, materialist system.

JOEL RICHARDSON: There is another issue that I wanted to ask you about. I thought it was quite fascinating. Something, some comments that you've made, that I've read. You mentioned that during the time of the Mahdi, the djinns would freely interact with humans, that they would be able to freely communicate. Could you explain that in a little bit more detail?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes; Hazrat Mahdi will be like the Prophet Solomon. He will communicate with the djinns in the same manner. Hazrat Mahdi is the Mahdi of both djinns and of men. However, he will take this power from God. Just as djinns do not constitute an independent power, Hazrat Mahdi is not an independent person either. He is a person who takes all his power from God. The Torah also clearly states that Hazrat Mahdi will be taking his power from God. Muslim djinns, djinns that believe in God, will help believers in making Islam prevail in the world.

For instance in the Book of Luke, 22:9 "They [disciples] asked him [Jesus Christ], 'Where do you want us to prepare it?'" Look, "... where do you want us to prepare..." He [Jesus Christ] told them, "Just after you go into the city," and we believe that this city will be Rome, that is Istanbul. "Just after you go into the city a man carrying a pitcher of water will meet you." An Aquarian will meet you. "Follow him into the house he enters..." That means follow the lead of that person. The person meant here is Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). Hazrat Mahdi is the one from the sign of Aquarius . And we understand from this that Hazrat Mahdi will have a house and that he will carry on his activities from his home and that Christians should abide by that person, Jesus Christ says that they should act along with him.


ADNAN OKTAR: The book of Mark 14:13 "He sent two of his disciples, telling them..." Pioneering youngsters "Go into the city..." and that is Rome, Istanbul "... and you will meet a man carrying a pitcher of water." That means you will come across Hazrat Mahdi, with the Messiah. "Follow him." Follow King Messiah. And that is the same in the Torah as well, in the Judaic accounts, it is said that Hazrat Mahdi will appear in Rome, in Istanbul openly. A man carrying a water pitcher, that is a very important proof as well that the Mahdi will be an Aquarian. And Hazrat Mahdi will appear in the age of Aquarius and we are in the age of Aquarius at this moment.

JOEL RICHARDSON: You believe we are living in the time of the Mahdi right now?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes. We believe that Hazrat Mahdi has come and is busy carrying on his activities. We believe that he appeared in Istanbul, as that is how it is related in the Judaic accounts. This is how it is related in Islamic accounts as well. The Shia accounts also state that he will appear in Istanbul. The prominent religious leaders in Iran also state that he will appear in Istanbul. There is no other time for this. He should appear in a date between the years 1400 to 1500 according to Hijri calendar. According to this, because all the portents have been realized, there is no other time for the appearance of Hazrat Mahdi.

Both of the great world wars mentioned in the Gospel have happened. After World War II, a lifetime has passed as well and consequently we are exactly in the time the Prophet Jesus mentioned in the Gospel. A lifetime has now passed after the World War II; or it is about to pass. This is one of the biggest proofs of the fact that Jesus Christ is now among us. Our Prophet (saas) talks about two comets appearing in the time of the Mahdi and both of those comets have appeared. The hadith states that one of those comets would go against the direction of other comets and that it would be very bright and that it would have two horns, and that happened as well. One of them, the one that would have two horns is the comet Lulin and the other is the comet Halley.

Our Prophet (saas) says that there will be solar and lunar eclipses in the month of Ramadan with 15 day intervals. It is said that it will happen twice successively. That portent has been realized as well. It has coincided with the years Hazrat Mahdi has appeared.

JOEL RICHARDSON: I want to thank you for sharing some of your thoughts with me tonight. As always, I appreciate the opportunity to be here with you, I appreciate your hospitality.

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. You are our brother. Bediuzzaman Said Nursi has referred to the alliance of Muslims with Christians as a very important incident. The most important strength of Hazrat Mahdi is in his alliance with Christians. This is one of his most important strengths. And I as a student of Mahdi will of course be in an alliance with you, a student of Jesus Christ. This is the most crucial togetherness for the beauty and deliverance of this world.

JOEL RICHARDSON: I appreciate your kind sentiments. As I expressed to Mr. Babuna earlier, as a Christian, I don't believe in making alliances with Muslims but what I do believe in is building friendships. And I am grateful for the friendship that I have with you as well as many of your followers. When I was with you the last time I promised you that I would be praying for you as well as all of your followers. Even for the past four years as I gathered with different believers, I've asked them to remember the Muslims in Istanbul, and to remember you and to remember your followers.

ADNAN OKTAR: Alliance, this [what we have here] is again an alliance. We are forging an alliance as friends and brothers. We wouldn't be embracing the same religion anyway. We would be forging an alliance as friends. We would be forging an alliance on the subject of existence of God against atheists, Darwinists and materialists. That is not a conversion or anything. It is not my conversion to Christianity or your conversion to Islam because both of us love God greatly, because both of us believe in the Hereafter and we both believe in the other Prophets, because we believe in destiny, because we believe in Heaven and Hell, because we ally with each other on the main principles of faith; what is meant here is a scientific, scholarly, reasonable alliance against those who deny the main principles of faith. Or else that is not a conversion of religion or anything.

JOEL RICHARDSON: I know. I certainly will continue to—on my part—fight against unbelief and also against compromise among my Christian brothers. I am sure that you'll continue to fight against violence, hatred and anti-Semitism and these sort of things among the Muslims. And I'll continue to fight against unbelief in my sphere of influence in the US and you will continue to fight against unbelief in Turkey.

ADNAN OKTAR: I of course respect your belief. But I am a follower of both Mohammed and Jesus (peace be upon them all), a Muslim Christian. I am a follower of both Mohammed and Moses (pbuta). I mean I have not lost connection with Christianity. I am a follower of Jesus as well, but a Muslim one. I abide by all the real words of the Prophet Jesus, all his beautiful statements. For instance, this book [Christians Should Heed the Prophet Jesus Christ] consists of quoted passages from the Gospel and I believe in all of them. But I believe them as a follower of Prophet Mohammed (saas). I abide by all of them. Look, that is a whole book. It consists of quoted passages from the Gospel and I believe in all of them but I believe in it as a Muslim follower of Jesus. And I am a Muslim follower of Moses, a Muslim follower of Noah and a Muslim follower of Abraham, Solomon and Israel (pbuta), but all as a Muslim. I abide by the teachings of all Prophets. I abide by the teachings of all Prophets that are in compliance with the Qur'an. I am awating the coming of Jesus Christ with great love and admiration.

JOEL RICHARDSON: I certainly fully understand your position and to be clear I have no desire to force anyone to convert. It is just my desire to extend the invitation to you and once again to tell you that I love you and I love all your followers. You have wonderful followers. And we will continue to pray for you and continue to pray for your followers as well that once again the Lord of Causes, His Face will shine upon you. And as always, teşekkürler ederim. Thank you so much for having me. And it is a pleasure always to see you.

ADNAN OKTAR: May the Light of God be upon us all. It is natural that you would be inviting me to Christianity and I will be inviting you to Islam—and that is what I am doing—but we both love the same God, we both love the same Prophets, we both believe in the same Hereafter, we both believe in the same Heaven and Hell, we both believe in the same destiny. Consequently, there are many aspects that we have an alliance about.

JOEL RICHARDSON: And I would certainly expect you to do so.

ADNAN OKTAR: We have to act hand in hand against the dajjal, the antichrist. I mean against godlessness, against Darwinism, materialism, atheism; we should give a struggle with science, reason, art, democracy, love and beauty.

JOEL RICHARDSON: Do you mind if I say a quick prayer for the nation of Turkey?

ADNAN OKTAR: That would be great.

JOEL RICHARDSON: [God] thank You for this beautiful nation, thank You for the beautiful people of Turkey. Right now I ask and I ask in unison with the believers throughout the earth that You extend Your Hand over this nation that You would bless this nation, that You would awaken this nation to the Beauty of Who You are. And that You would cause a mighty, powerful and beautiful, massive crowd of Your followers to emerge out of this nation, that Your blessing would -in the midst of all of the recent protests and conflicts- that You would allow Your Goodness and the shadow of Your Goodness to just roll over this nation. We thank You for these things.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. May God give goodness, abundance, auspiciousness and beauty to our country. May God protect us from the dissension of the antichrist. May God protect us from communist dissension. May God make our nation live in brotherhood, abundance, peace, goodness and beauty. Together with Christians, Jews, with people from all religions, all faiths, may Almighty God give strength to Turkey and other countries for a beautiful world. May God give strength to the US and to Turkey as well. May everywhere, everything be filled with the Light of God, may all of them be filled with richness. May God give all of us goodness, merriness and Light. Masha'Allah.


ADNAN OKTAR: Alright, we will meet again, insha'Allah. May God give you health and welfare. Let us meet again tomorrow, insha'Allah. 

2013-06-24 04:15:18

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