The Secret Beyond Matter

Mr. Adnan Oktar's live conversation with Rabbis from Jerusalem Rabbinical Court, Sanhedrin (November 21st, 2012)

November 21st, 2012


OKTAR BABUNA: Good evening dear viewers. We are continuing our program. We have very valuable guests, insha'Allah. Rabbi Yeshayahu Hollander; he is the member of the Sanhedrin the Rabbinical Court and associate Justice on the Jerusalem Court for Issues of Bnei Noah. He also teaches in a religion school. Our other guest is Rabbi Ben Abrahamson; he is a historian and he has been serving as the consultant at Jerusalem Rabbinical Court on matters about Islam since 2004. Furthermore he is the Director of the Committee for Historical Research in Islam and Judaism. Welcome. Please go on Master.

ADNAN OKTAR: Welcome to both of you.


ADNAN OKTAR: We love you all very much. Insha'Allah there will be peace in the region, there will be beauties and love. You are a trust to us from the Prophet Abraham (pbuh), the Prophet Moses (pbuh). Palestinians are the children of the Prophet Ishmael (pbuh) and you are the children of the Prophet Israel(pbuh), the Prophet Jacob (pbuh). We will not accept artificial fights and artificial plots by no manner of means. The region will turn into a place in which peace, beauty, goodness and pleasantness prevail. Insha'Allah the promises of the Torah, the promises of the Qur'an, the promises of our Prophet (saas) will all be realized. The artificial commotion will completely end insha'Allah. Allah has promised that to us. We are in the times of the Messiah, we are in the time of the King Messiah (pbuh), the Moshiach. Insha'Allah we will altogether live by this pleasantness, this goodness. These are all the portents of the appearance of the King Messiah, Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh).

Well, let us first ask this to our guests here; does the Torah have beautiful teachings for us for the prevalance of peace and brotherhood in the region?

RABBI YESHAYAHU HOLLANDER: In the Torah, the Tanakh describes the time to come -which is hopefully our time-and many Prophets have described this time in metaphor and also in simple language. And here we have before us, a series of quotes which Mr. Oktar prepared [and which] are relating to the time of Messiah which we hope is coming upon us now, very soon.

ADNAN OKTAR:Let us hear these from your mouth, could you please read and explain them to us?

RABBI YESHAYAHU HOLLANDER: So we start with a quotation from Zechariah. Zechariah Chapter 9:10. "I will take away the chariots… and the battle bow will be broken... He [King Messiah] will proclaim peace to the nations."

And similarly Ezekiel said; [Ezekiel 39:9-10] "Burn them [the weapons] up - the small shields and the large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and the spears... They will use them for fuel... declares the Sovereign Lord." We will not need weapons anymore, we will not want and we will not need. No one will want them so no one will need them.

Micah, similar to Isaiah, said; "In the last days... He [the Lord]... will settle disputes for many peoples... Nations will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. Every man will sit under his own vine and under his own fig tree, and no one will make them afraid." [Micah, 4:1-4] That is quite different than it is today yes, but it has to change soon.

"Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down in safety," in Hosea. [Hosea, 2:18]

"And in that time," the time of the Moshiach, soon here, "There will be neither famine, nor war, neither envy nor strife. All good things will be bestowed in abundance, and all delicacies will be accessible like dust." In Mishnah Torah, in the section dealing with the Laws of Kings, Maimonides wrote that we are to understand the "Wolf living with the Lamb" and similar phrases, metaphorically; that there will be no change in nature, wolves will still eat lambs when they can, but the metaphor means that people will not try to subjugate one another, people will be free. As the Qur'an says "There is no coercion in religion", so there will be no coercion of any nation by another nation.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. Now you read what our Master has explained in Turkish.

OKTAR BABUNA: The wars and violence coming to an end in the time of the King Messiah. Rabbi Hollander has read the quotes about peace from the Torah. "I will take away the chariots... and the battle bow will be broken... He [King Messiah] will proclaim peace to the nations." Zechariah Chapter 9:10.

ADNAN OKTAR: So here in these quotes it is said that the armaments will be stopped. Explain it to us a little bit, interpret it for us.

OKTAR BABUNA: Armaments will be stopped, all weapons will be taken out of use, insha'Allah. And the King Messiah, Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will bring peace to the nations. Peace will come to the whole world.

ADNAN OKTAR: To the whole world, that is good.

OKTAR BABUNA: "Burn them [the weapons] up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears... They will use them for fuel... declares the Sovereign Lord." Ezekiel, 39:9-10. All the weapons will be put away.

ADNAN OKTAR: So in the End Times there will be no more tanks, cannon balls or rifles. That is good.

OKTAR BABUNA:"In the last days... He [the Lord]... will settle disputes for many peoples... Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. Every man will sit under his own vine and under his own fig tree…"

ADNAN OKTAR: So it says that there will be no more military maneuvres. There will be no more wars. That is good.

OKTAR BABUNA: Insha'Allah" Every man will sit under his own vine and no one will make them afraid, for the LORD Almighty has spoken" [Micah, 4:1-4] So the weapons will be used in industry.

ADNAN OKTAR: That is the promise of Allah, there will be peace in the world. Yes.Masha'Allah.

OKTAR BABUNA: "Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down in safety." [Hosea, 2:18] Safety, justice will prevail in whole world, the weapons will be abolished.

ADNAN OKTAR: The Torah says this, masha'Allah. After you are done with the quotations our Master here has read, let us have our other blessed guest talk.

OKTAR BABUNA: Insha'Allah. "And in that time,there will be neither famine, nor war, neither envy nor strife. All good things will be bestowed in abundance, and all delicacies will be accessible like dust." Wealth and peace will come to the whole world insha'Allah; there will be no famine.

ADNAN OKTAR: So the Torah says that there will be no more famine, no economic crisis. Right? When will that happen? In the time of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), Moshiach, in the time of the King Messiah, in the time of the son of David, yes. Masha'Allah.

OKTAR BABUNA: "For the earth shall be filled with knowledge of Allah." Maimonides, Mishnah Torah [Laws of Kings 12:5]

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. Is that all?

OKTAR BABUNA: Yes Master, insha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR: You go on please.

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: I just want to make a little comment; right now it was Ras as-Sanah,the new year, Islamic new year. In the Jewish calendarthat is equivalentofRosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year. And that is the day that we celebrate everything that is written here. It is the day when we say that we accept the Kingdom of God on ourselves and we completely summit Him and recognize Him as completely in control the whole Universe and that everything will be peaceful and we have an entire holiday of accepting God as King. And it is when we understand that all these verses will come to pass and for that it is the beginning of the year, beginning of a new age.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. We are in the Muharram ash-Shareef. And I have said that great incidents will take place in the month of Muharram, haven't I?

OKTAR BABUNA: You've said that Master.

ADNAN OKTAR: I have said it. I have said it before. I said; "Great incidents will take place," and they actually happened. Yes, please go on.

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: Yes. So the things that we look forward to and expect and center our expectation towards are the promises of the Golden Age. And one of them is given by the Prophet Isaiah (pbuh): "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together, and a little child will lead them… The infant will play near the hole of the cobra snake, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy." [Isaiah, 11:6-9] One of the famous commentators, Maimonides speaks about this verse that there will still be wolfs and lambs and leopards and children during this time. But there will be a completely different way that they work together. There will no longer individual kings, battles and fighting. But everybody will recognize the Kingship of God. And we all summit to Him and wolf and lamb will live together.

ADNAN OKTAR: Exactly the same is mentioned in the hadiths. It is mentioned in the hadith of our Prophet (saas).


ADNAN OKTAR: The Torah says that there will be no anarchy, no war, no terror, there will be nothing of the sort. Masha'Allah. Our Prophet (saas) says exactly the same.Yes.

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: Yes, masha'Allah. Okay. Another promise that is given in the book of Leviticus, in the Torah; "You will eat all the food you want and live in safety in your land. I will grant peace in the land, and you will lie down and no one will make you afraid. I will remove savage beasts from the land, and the sword will not pass through your country." [Leviticus, 26:5-6]

ADNAN OKTAR: And that is the time now. The Torah is talking about the time we are living in. Yes. Insha'Allah.

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: And we understand that it is not just a promise for the children of Israel. In the Talmud, in Baba Kamma 38th page, it ispromised that all the nations of the world will be brought back to their proper place and all live in peace and harmony in a place that was set aside for them.

ADNAN OKTAR: That is nice.

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: "The meek will inherit the land and enjoy great peace… for the power of the wicked will be broken, the Lord upholds the righteous. The days of the blameless are known to the Lord and their inheritance will endure forever." This is in Psalms, chapter 37:11.

ADNAN OKTAR: So that is the Messiah and his students. The King Messiah, that is Hazrat Mahdi and his students. Masha'Allah

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: Then there is another quote from Isaiah which is similar to the first one: "The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food." [Isaiah, 65:25]

OKTAR BABUNA: Here it is again stated that an environment of peace will prevail, insha'Allah. You've explained this before, Allah informs us that the capitalist system will be vanished insha'Allah; all the systems in which people compete and oppress each other [will be vanished].

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah.

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: Yes. Yes. "The fruit of righteous, the fruit of the righteous people will be peace; the effect of righteousness will be quietness and confidence forever. My people will live in peaceful dwelling places, in secure homes, in undisturbed places of rest." [Isaiah, 32:16-18]

ADNAN OKTAR: MashaAllah. Yet that will happen with the King Messiah, that is Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) not with diplomacy, not with politics. That is the command of the Torah and also these are the truths our Prophet (saas) has very comprehensively explained in his hadiths. We are at that time, we are in the End Times insha'Allah.

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: "They will not... bear children for calamity…" [Isaiah, 65:23] In other words, the children will not leave the proper path. In the Prophet Isaiah, chapter 65.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah.

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: This is again from Prophet Jeremiah, chapter 33: "I will heal My people and will let them enjoy abundant peace and security." [Jeremiah, 33:6]

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah, masha'Allah.

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: And again this is the goal of children of Israel. This is what we hope for, this is what we pray for, this is what we yearn for and this is what we cry out for. When the children of Israel were working in Egypt under Pharaoh, they were suffering and being put tremendous hardships, hundreds of thousands of people got together and cried out, "How long? How long? How soon will we be given a redeemer, will we be remeeded?" And this is what we need to do now.

ADNAN OKTAR: [They were praying] For the coming of the Prophet Moses (pbuh). Masha'Allah. And now [they pray] for the coming of the Mahdi (pbuh), the Moshiach. Masha'Allah.

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: Yes, right. So we hope that "[at the time of King Messiah, people] will do no wrong; they will speak no lies, nor will deceit be found in their mouths... and no one will make them afraid." [Zephaniah, 3:13]

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah.

RABBI BEN ABRAHAMSON: Can I share something? When I am reading about the lion and the lamb and the child, all these walting together, I am reminded of an Ayah, in the Surat al-Hujurat in the Qur'an, it says: "O mankind! We created you from one (pair) male and one female, and made you into nations and different tribes, only so that you should know each other. Verily the most honored of you in the Sight of Allah is the one who is the most righteous. Truly Allah has complete knowledge of all things, He is fully aware." And the word, that you may know, in Arabic is Lita'arafu, which comes from the root of "bilmarfu" which means we should be fair and honorable and in kind manner. This is exactly we talking about; lion and the lamb should be walking together and live together in peace.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. Insha'Allah in the first step what we desire is to have Egypt, Turkey, Israel and Palestine unite. That is what we want as the first step. After that, with the participation of Iran, Pakistan and other countries, with the participation of Russia we will form the sea of friendship, brotherhood in the region and give a start to time of the King Messiah insha'Allah, by the Will of Allah. We do not want wars to happen. Israel has the right to live in that region. That is the land of their ancestors. There is a verse to that effect in the Qur'an, an explicit verse. I mean, demanding Israel's departure from that land, saying "Israelis should leave those lands," is not rational. It is your homeland, you are the adornment, the beauty of that land, you will remain there until the Last Day. Anything on the contrary would not be compliant with the Qur'an. It has no logic, it is not humane and it is not compliant with the good conscience. You will of course be there. However this will be attained with the Unity of Islam, with Hazrat Mahdi, the Moshiach. We will embrace each other, we will become brothers. In the time of our Prophet (saas) Muslims married Jewish women, they ate each other's food, they have done trade; they were living as brothers, as friends. The same days will come again. According to our belief the Mahdi (pbuh) that will appear will rule over the Jews with the original of the Torah, he will rule over the Christians with the original of the Gospel and he will rule over Muslims with the Qur'an. Love, peace, friendship, brotherhood, good faith, kindness will envelop all around. The commotion at the moment is completely artificial, there is no need for that. Radiant immaculate people will be living in that region in friendship and brotherhood. We will preserve this peace up until the Last Day insha'Allah.


ADNAN OKTAR: Alright then. Let us leave it at that for this time. 

2012-11-28 03:22:41

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