The Secret Beyond Matter

Mr. Adnan Oktar's Live Conversation with the world-renowned Freemasons (A9TV, October 11th, 2012; 21:00)

Excerpt from Mr. Adnan Oktar's Live Conversation on A9 TV dated October 11th, 2012 


OKTAR BABUNA: Good evening our dear viewers, we are starting another episode of our program with our dear Master. Tonight we have very valuable guests. First I would like to introduce our guests to you. MR. Timothy Hogan.  He is the current Grand Commander, that is, the Grand Master of the Knights Templars. In other words, he is the current leader of The Sovereign Order of the Initiatic Temple [the Ordre Soverain du Temple Initiatique], the original Templars with a lineage that goes back to the 12th century.   Right beside him we have Mr. Wayne Arner. He is a 33 degree Mason in Colorado, US. He has been a Mason for more than 60 years. He leads many masonic affiliated structures in America and is the spiritual consultant of the Scottish Rite Denver Consistory Council. He is a member of 33 Degree Supreme Council and a Knight Commander of the Temple in the York Rite. Right beside him we have Mr. Trevor Stewart. He is the former provincial grand master from England. He is a prominent name in masonic history and an author on freemasonry. He is a very well-known 33 degree freemason. He is a lecturer at the United Kingdom Grand Lodge and the chief of the Main Research Lodge affiliated to this Grand Lodge. He was a master of many lodges including Quotuor Coronati Lodge. He is the spiritual and philosophic voice of British Grand Mason Lodge in many respects. He lectures worldwide and he is the leader of many private bodies in England. And right beside me we have Mr. Stephen Doan. He is the former grand master of the Grand Lodge of California and a 33 degree Mason. He is current consultant of the Jurisprudence Committee and vice chair of the Institute for Masonic Studies. He holds the Chevalier Degree and the Active DeMolay Legion of Honor Medal, and in 1992, he was elected a deputy member of the International Supreme Council.

He is a member of many bodies like York Rite, the Royal Order of Scotland, Knight Masons, and Societas Rosicruciana. He is the former head of the Societas Rosicruciana. Welcome.. Master please you go on insha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR: Well, you are all very much welcomed, you've brought joy. You've brought us honor and grace.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: Thank you so much. The brethren who've been here before all sent their love to you.

ADNAN OKTAR: Likewise to them all, we are also sending them our greetings and our love. Insha'Allah we clearly see from the portents that we will enter this beautiful age, this golden age in which the whole world will become brothers, in which peace will be settled terror and anarchy will go away and weapons will disappear with the freemasons and Templars collaborating with Muslims and Christians [and Jews].  As a matter of fact, even this meeting alone is a portent of this. Unprecedented things are happening, wondrous things are happening. As you know freemasonry is a secret organization, yet now good people, people who feel love, good Christians, good Muslims   [and good Jews] are all coming together and thus are taking the first step of this beautiful, pleasant age. Now please, let us take your opinions about this beautiful development first and then take the views of our other guests in turn.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: You know, we strive as freemasons in particular to bring people together in peace and to build the Temple of peace, just as the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) strived for. And now we are living in a time where as a world we're coming together and if we can build that peace together then we can  build a beautiful world. Now is the time to do it.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah.

STEPHEN DOAN: And I find among young people in America that there is a great interest in finding what unites us rather than what divides us, to try to find the commonality that we all share whether Christians, Muslims or Jews. And frankly I see a lot of that in Freemasonry. Freemasonry doesn't require that you belong to any particular religious belief and we try encourage that which unites and not that which divides. My own particular lodge for instance has Christian members, Jewish members and it has Muslim members. And we all unite together to find those things we have in common.

WAYNE ARNER: We are a brotherhood of men and we hold no man to be above another. We all meet on the level. We are here tonight with you on the level.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah.

TREVOR STEWART: Indeed. Quotuor Coronati Lodge is a special lodge in the world. It draws its membership very limited members from all over the world from all religious persuasions. So we have Jews, Muslims, we have Zoroastrians. And we even have Scottish people too..

ADNAN OKTAR: Astagfirullah.  This really is amazing, it really is sensational. In the End Times, just as we enter the seventh millennium, seeing these wondrous events starting to take place within this seventh millennium, seeing all the aforementioned portents taking place, seeing Allah bringing good people together, seeing them forming alliances with each other-  and his highness Bediuzzaman Said Nursi clearly says that Muslims will form alliance with the Christians- and seeing that animosity against Jews is now being put away and seeing the compassion felt for them, seeing their right to live in comfort is recognized and painstakingly preserved show us the richness and beauty of the End Times. The sons of the Prophet Moses (pbuh) and the subjects of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and the sons and subjects of the Prophet Mohammad (saas) seem to be determined to make the world brothers with each other, Masha'Allah. It is clearly understood that all will be finalized within this century. This world is too exhausted to go on for another century. This century is very important. We believe that the corruption will start afterwards anyway, and that the Last Day will come after that.  This century is the century that illumination, contentment, science, art, aesthetics, beauty, goodness, abundance will prevail. Allah has appointed you nicely until this time and now He is making you get in contact with us, talk to us. Allah has thus shown us that wondrous things will take place and we have thus seen another miracle. Yes..

TIMOTHY HOGAN: Insha'Allah.   

ADNAN OKTAR: Insha'Allah, masha'Allah.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: I think, as Allah is Compassionate and Merciful, we have a responsibility to be compassionate and merciful.  And if we are compassionate and merciful with our brothers around the world whether they are Christians, whether they are Muslims, whether they are Jews, we can come together and build this Golden Age. 

ADNAN OKTAR: There is no reason for anything in the contrary. I mean, why should there be persecution, why should there be suffering, why should there be weapons? The world is vast, it will be enough for everyone. Insha'Allah we will re-build the Temple, the Masjeed of the Prophet Solomon (pbuh),  we will open the borders of Israel, the whole region will become brothers insha'Allah. Palestinians and Israelis will embrace each other. Lebanon, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria.. there will be a festive air, a beauty all around. This brotherhood, this beauty which is also the ideal of Freemasonry, this miracle will be realized while you are witnessing it as well, insha'Allah. This was an ideal, a cause and it will be a reality in this century. This has been embraced as an ideal for centuries but it will become a reality in this century. We are at the last period of the life of this world according to the Jewish calendar, we are at the last period of the life of this world according to the hadiths of our Prophet (saas) as well and it sure seems that this is the last period of this world. Science and art has developed in the highest possible level, there is internet, there are radios, there are televisions. The communication is at a perfect level. People are now asking for freedom, peace and brotherhood. All the conditions have been met. The only thing to be done is to strive a little bit. And we will insha'Allah show this effort altogether.      

TREVOR STEWART:  What I think is discussions like this, the opportunity to meet together as brothers and talk about those things that we have in common, that is how we can take this to the next stage, that is how we can achieve the Golden Age. Open communication, treating one another with love and respect,  being brothers.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.. Previously there was the spirit of dividing and fractioning. Everyone used to have a spirit to hate one another. Templars were hated, freemasons were hated Muslims were hated, Christians were hated, Jews were hated. All these hated partied have come together and shown the world that they are the true masters of love, that they are the real brothers, that they are the real source, real origin of love. The satan has no more power to pull a trick in the world anymore. The satan has been defeated in this century. Satan is in such a wretched position. It is the time for brotherhood and love yet as far as I see a great effort should be showed. There should be a lot of debates, a lot of meetings should be held. We need to have ourselves heard. As we talk, negative forces are defeated, as we talk negative forces escape and positive forces are revealed more and more in time. I mean the sun is rising so to speak..      

OKTAR BABUNA: Masha'Allah.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: Yes, when one trusts in Allah, when one trusts in God, then one has nothing to fear at that point.


ADNAN OKTAR: Everything has been done in the Sight of Almighty Allah. He had planned everything. He conducts everything upon a determined destiny. He is watching us right now, He is listening to us right now as well, and He is the One making us speak right this moment. You are genuinely distinguished members of Freemasonry, you are the highest rank members of Freemasonry and you represent the genuine Freemasonry, genuine Templars. You truly have a great influence on the world. These valuable ideas being communicated to the world by valuable people such as yourselves in a very nice manner and these valuable ideas being heard constitutes a great power. Power plus power, power plus power.. All these added together is going towards a magnificent system insha'Allah.    

STEPHEN DOAN: One of the key symbols that we have in freemasonry is that there is to be a harmony within the lodge. And harmony to be matched with the harmony of the heavens. So this is a very simple symbol but I think it is a very profound one. And what we are trying to do in our own ways is to bring that harmony out from the lodge, out into the farther world.  As a historian I can say that there is a reason for this, in the organized way of freemasonry originally it would be purely Christian. But in England and particularly in England, the ruling family, the royal family at that time wanted to avoid any possibility of conflict between the various factions that might appear. If this is the way in which the Almighty operates, well fine that is the way He uses man in this way. But the answer to the way in which Freemasonry is organized in a non-denominational and non-sectarian way now lies within the eighteenth century, in to 1750 and thereabouts.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.. These centuries have led to this century and this century now is the last one. I mean this will be the century in which art, science, aesthetics will appear in the most glorious, most beautiful manner; the century in which democracy, human rights, peace will present itself in the most beautiful way.   If you pay attention you will see that anarchy, terror has become very violent. That is because positive forces have appeared and negative forces are resisting them with all their might. But they will have no power. I mean there is nothing that they can do.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: Yes, insha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR: The positive forces will continue to progress step by step. And their weapon is love. Only love. The other side has firearms but we have the weapon of love, we have our faith, we have our love for Allah and we have love for humans, for plants, for animals and for everything stemming from our love for Allah. It is clearly seen that love will have the upper hand, that those on the side of Allah will be victorious. Yes.. Now let us hear the views of our guests for the last time and then end our program, insha'Allah.

WAYNE ARNER:  Well, I want you to know that Freemasonry in the United States is varied as your own country. My visit here with you has shown me what a multi-cultural country this is. It has enormous variety of people and yet they all – this is the most-busy city I have ever seen in my life and I've been in a lot of places. But in America we have a diversity as we've talked about here. That diversity though narrows down when we walk through the door and we live that freed and we need to make sure that  people in the world know that we believe in what we say, and we do what we say.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.. Let us hear your opinions as well..

WAYNE ARNER: I am very heartened by the developments that are taking place slowly within this region of the world. It can be very complicated as you know. I am involved to some extent remotely with the United Nations and I become concerned about Syria and so on. These I think are very troublesome times but I do believe that freemasonry, through freemasons can play some effective role and may be that is why I've become involved with this kind of work.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes..  Allah is the One Who created Freemasonry, Allah is the One Who created Islam, Allah is the One Who created Christians, Allah is the One Who created the Jews. We now feel that Allah tells us to unite. That is because the Torah talks about love, the Gospels talk about love, the Qur'an talks about love, freemasonry talks about love. Well then why should we be separated? Allah unites us even though there are some who do not want this and He will unite us and we see that He is uniting us. We will attain very beautiful results insha'Allah. .. Please go on, let us hear your opinions.  


STEPHEN DOAN: To have a dispute requires two people. Don't take the bait. Somebody wants to have an argument with you turn the other cheek. Treat them as a brother in response to what they may say to you in hatred. And when we return hatred with love, hatred will slowly disappear and the love and harmony that we are looking for will in the end triumph.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah, how nice, how beautiful.. This is the spirit of love in the Gospels. We see the same spirit of love in the Torah and in the Qur'an as well. That is most beautiful.. May Allah give you even more means, may Allah guide us all in the right path, may Allah give us all health and welfare, may Allah give you long life. Insha'Allah we will see the appearance of the King Messiah, the Mahdi altogether. Insha'Allah we will see the Prophet Jesus Messiah (pbuh). Insha'Allah we will see the world as brothers, insha'Allah people will see how beautiful services freemasonry have provided for this world, how beautiful service Templars have provided for this world. Insha'Allah may we altogether, with joined hands as brothers, render this world prosperous again.  Insha'Allah.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: Insha'Allah. Insha'Allah.           

ADNAN OKTAR: Alright.. That will be the end of this program for today. We will meet again in another day insha'Allah. 

2012-10-13 15:50:40

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