The Secret Beyond Matter

Mr. Adnan Oktar's Live Conversation with Mr. Aaron Lerner [Member of the Israeli Likud Party, Central Committee] on A9 TV (Feb 7, 2012)

Excerpt from Mr. Adnan Oktar's Live Conversation on A9 TV dated February 7th, 2012

ADNAN OKTAR: Israel? Who will I be speaking with?

MS. DAMLA: Dr. Aaron Lerner. A member of the Likud Party central committee. He is also the director of the Imra news portal that analyzes news reports about Israeli-Arab relations and is closely monitored by journalists, think-tanks, foreign policy analysts and foreign governments with an interest in the Middle East.


Ms. DAMLA: Dr. Aaron, yes.

ADNAN OKTAR: Let us see his picture. Dr. Aaron, okay. Let's listen to him.

AARON LERNER: Mr. Adnan Oktar, I want to thank you for this opportunity to ask you about some matters that many Israelis are concerned about.

ADNAN OKTAR: I thank you as well.

AARON LERNER: Should we in Israel be concerned that the Iranian leadership, Ayatollah Khameni and the President of Iran, may use nuclear weapons to bring an apocalypse to hasten the return of the hidden imam?

ADNAN OKTAR: Such a thing would normally be expected, of course. I mean, it looks as if they should do such a thing in the light of that belief, but during my talks I have seen that Iran is very hesitant. Because I said we must build Turkish-Islamic Union, so the whole region and everyone can relax. "Would Israel permit that?" asked the Ayatollah. That is a very strange thing to say. From what I can see, there is a hesitancy. It would be very hard for them to do such a thing, because they would attract the opposition of the world public. For one thing, Allah would never permit such cruelty. They could never dare to do it. Turkey would never permit it, so we would never permit it. I have said this before. We will bring the roof down on anyone who tries to ensnare Israel in such a way. It is out of the question. I mean, had there been any such risk, I would come down hard on it. But they really do have such an abnormal belief regarding the Mahdi, they have such a weird belief about the Mahdi. This is really something that no reasonable person could possibly think, this is not something such a person could go along with it. A belief that states that "Someone gets lost in a cave for more than a thousand years and one day suddenly emerges!" All sorts of violence and cruelty is possible under such a mindset. But when we talk, I see it is all of this is a fantasy for these people. In other words, this is a utopian idea for them. They do not believe in it literally. They do not really believe that such a Mahdi will actually appear. Like those people who tie bits of rag to trees. They don't really believe it, but they pretend to believe. They too do not actually believe but appear as if they do. Actually it is not possible for them to have such a belief.

AARON LERNER: I understand. Can our neighbors accept the legitimacy of a Jewish state of Israel if they consider Israel to be waqf?

ADNAN OKTAR: You will in any case live together as brothers in Israel. Your living in Israel is an explicit command according to the verses of the Qur'an. I mean, according to the Qur'an, Allah wants you to live there. But as brothers, side by side, with the Palestinians. There are Christians there as well, so you will live there according to your beliefs together with the Christians as well. But living in comfort and ease in not, of course, the essential thing. We have come here to be tested. The really important thing is to be devoted to the King Messiah, Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). Every Israeli must ask Allah for this, night and day, praying in joy and passion and tears. Because your time has come. This is the time of the Messiah you have been awaiting for 3000 years. Open up the Torah and the Zohar and the Talmud and see. Look at the words and signs. It is clear -2012. That is a date explicitly mentioned. Moreover the year 1999, the time of the Messiah began in 1999, and we are now in 2012. 2012 is the start of great events. Allah announced the coming of the Messiah through the foundation of the state of Israel. All Jews who follow the King Messiah will be at ease. They will see that beautiful Golden Age, those beautiful days promised in the Torah. Otherwise, life will be turn almost into Hell for the Jews. Any Jew who thinks nothing of the Messiah will suffer all kinds of tribulations, let me say that. But they will live in peace and happiness when they follow the King Messiah.

AARON LERNER: The current state of Israel, does it fit into your description, or does it need to change?

ADNAN OKTAR: It must change. I mean, the Israeli people must become religious and talk about the King Messiah much more all over the world. They must come together and pray on this to Allah. Jews very, very rarely talk about the King Messiah. Some of them even say, "He will probably not be coming after this." Yet the Torah says that he will come when people say he will not come. That is why I expect Jews to become more devout, to love Allah more and to be more punctilious regarding the commandments of the Torah.

The Messiah they are awaiting and our Mahdi are one and the same.

The Torah sets out at length how if Israel does not follow the Messiah it will end in disaster. Allah says that He will send a terrible disaster on them. People who read it are terrified. Allah says He will devastate the country from one end to the other. In other words, He says, "You must follow the King Messiah," the Mahdi (pbuh). "Otherwise, I will give you no peace, abundance or tranquility" He says. "But if you follow the Mahdi (pbuh), the King Messiah, then your rivers will flow with milk and honey," He says. "I will give you great wealth and abundance and you will live in peace and plenty in those Promised Lands." He says; "I will give you an abundance and beauty like of which has not been seen before." Either they will accept him or suffer disasters, may Allah forbid.

AARON LERNER: What happens if the Israelis do not become more religious? What does he see happening if the Israelis do not become more religious?

ADNAN OKTAR: Allah states at length in the Torah how He will punish Israel. This is explained in length. That appears in at least a hundred places. Jews have to obey the Torah. There is no other alternative. Indeed, one cannot be a Jew without obeying the Torah.

AARON LERENER: The punishment, is this a punishment that comes from natural disasters? Is it something that could only come from the Wrath of God?

ADNAN OKTAR: If you look at the Torah, this is described at length and in detail. In other words, Allah describes at length in the Torah how Allah would retribute severely when people fail to obey His commands. I can read from the Torah to you now, if you wish. But you can also examine it for yourself.

AARON LERNER: He's saying that other countries can act as messengers of God in attacking Israel?

ADNAN OKTAR: Well, the Torah speaks more in terms of natural disasters.

AARON LERNER: I understood natural disasters. What I'm asking is, it is possible that other countries could act as a messenger of God in hurting Israel if Israel does not become more religious?

ADNAN OKTAR: For one thing, Israel is descended from prophets. So, we want Israel to be religious, not atheist and materialist. But as I have said before, we would bring the roof down on anyone who harms a hair on Israel's head. That is out of the question.

AARON LERNER: OK. Let me ask, if the Mosque of Ibrahim in Hebron came under Palestinian control, would the Muslim religious authorities allow Jewish prayers to continue there, or is this prohibited by their interpretation of Islam?

ADNAN OKTAR: These things will all be solved through the King Messiah. Neither Israel, nor Palestine can solve them; these can only be solved with the King Messiah, the Mahdi (pbuh). You should sincerely believe in this; I wouldn't have said these if I didn't know for sure.

AARON LERNER: Until that time, until that time, if we're talking about policy-making for today, is it reasonable to think that if the Mosque of Ibrahim was under Palestinian control that Muslim religious authorities would allow Jewish prayer to continue there? Is it a reasonable thing to expect, or is it a mistake to think that Muslim religious authorities would allow Jewish prayer?

ADNAN OKTAR: Both Jews and Christians and Muslims all love the same prophets. Therefore, members of all three faiths have a duty to visit those sacred sites. There can be no question of stopping them. That would be a crime. Nobody can have the nerve to do that, it is out of the question.

AARON LERNER: Historically they did.

ADNAN OKTAR: Even if they did, we are here now. Turkey is here. We will never allow it again.

AARON LERNER: One last question. Your interpretation of Islam seems to be different from the interpretation we hear from our immediate neighbors. What are the chances that they will adopt your views?

ADNAN OKTAR: If they do not agree, they will be devastated. They will destroy one another and be ruined. Either they sign up to the view of the way of the Mahdi, either they sign up to love, peace and brotherhood, or else they will destroy one another and be ruined and devastated. There is no other alternative.

AARON LERNER: Thank you very much.

ADNAN OKTAR: And I thank you, too. The threat in the Torah is also there in the Qur'an for Muslims. So, disaster is inevitable unless people obey Allah. I thank you as well and I would like to invite you to Turkey.

AARON LERNER: Thank you very much, thank you sir.

ADNAN OKTAR: Good day.

2012-06-03 03:03:56

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