The Secret Beyond Matter

Mr. Adnan Oktar's live conversation with Iranian State TV – IRIB (A9 TV, March 15th 2012)

Excerpt from Mr. Adnan Oktar's Live Conversation on A9 TV dated March 15th, 2012

OKTAR BABUNA: Good evening, viewers. We have some very worthy guests. We are here with our brothers coming from Iran. If you would like to do the introductions please do. Welcome.

ADNAN OKTAR: Now, what is the name of the hodja who will be doing the interview?


ADNAN OKTAR: Ismail. Masha'Allah, this gentleman here will do the interpreting, he knows Farsi and Turkish.


ADNAN OKTAR: The hodja is producing a program series of 13 parts about freemasonry and Judaism and such subjects for the Iranian TV. He regards me as an expert, though I really know very little.

OKTAR BABUNA: Astagfirullah.

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course I will be happy to tell him what little I do know. Please go ahead. He can ask away..

THE INTERPRETER: The origins of freemasonry go back to ancient Egypt, as you know. What effects the structure in ancient Egypt had on freemasonry?

ADNAN OKTAR: Freemasonry is much older. It existed in the time of Nimrod and the Prophet Abraham (pbuh). When we look at the ruins of Nimrod, we can see all the masonic symbols on them. It is therefore incorrect to limit it to ancient Egypt. Of course freemasonry was powerful in ancient Egypt; it had a much powerful structuring but it is much older than that. Freemasonry disappears in the mists of time. Freemasonry was at work in the times of almost all the prophets. As a matter of fact we can see masonic symbols in the ancient stone carvings and reliefs dating back 3,000 or 4,000 years. Yes..

THE INTERPRETER: They accept the ancient Egypt as the beginning of freemasonry.

ADNAN OKTAR: Let us accept it as they say.

THE INTERPRETER: What influence did the priests of the time have on this belief? The priests around Pharaoh. What roles did they play?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, freemasonry dominated the court of Pharaoh in Egypt. But they had a dominion in the form of a secret state. Of course there was a feudal belief at that time, but freemasonry dominated the court as a separate structurer. It had a dominion as a secret force.. Indeed, when we look at the symbols, we can see that. Freemasonry was at work in the time of the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) as well. We can see from the Qur'an that they were active in the time of the Prophet Solomon (pbuh). In the Qur'an Allah says that master stonemasons were placed under the Prophet Solomon's command, that demons were placed under the Prophet Solomon's command. We can see that freemasonry was active at that time as well.

THE INTERPRETER: The connection between the concept of Kabbalah and freemasonry?

ADNAN OKTAR: The Kabbalah and freemasonry are the same thing. The Kabbalah is a part of the secret knowledge and mysteries of freemasonry. Briefly..

THE INTERPRETER: These spells and sorcery in the Kabbalah.. If you could briefly expand on that, he says.

ADNAN OKTAR: Let me say that rather than sorcery and magic, the Kabbalah is a system of exercises designed to enhance the capacity of the brain, one's powers of analysis. That is the essence of the Kabbalah. That sorcery aspect is not as important. It is more of a system designed to interpret mathematical structures, to give a form to the universe, to the system, to manage people, to diagnose people and to interpret events.

ADNAN OKTAR: But the Kabbalah has its own special method for summoning the djinn. It has an effective technique for summoning the djinn. I mean it possesses formula and methods for that.

THE INTERPRETER: He says that the Kabbalah was formed before Judaism, that it is the basic element.

ADNAN OKTAR: It is older, of course. It goes back before the time of the Prophet Abraham (pbuh).

THE INTERPRETER: He likes to learn a bit more about this; what is this Kabbalah, why did it come into being, what effects did it have? At the end of the day, the philosophy of the Kabbalah is significant and still has serious support in the world today. Some people are still trying to spread this idea.

ADNAN OKTAR: Again, the Kabbalah doubtless have true origins. Summoning the djinns, for instance, is definitely a knowledge received from the prophets. It is not something you can learn just anywhere. Of course, the Kabbalah's mathematical techniques, the methods of knowing people, its methods of analysis all come from the prophets. Many subjects in the Kabbalah have been handed down from the prophets. But some people used that for disbelief and corruption and wrongdoing, though that is another issue. Freemasonry is also a corrupted version of a true sect. Freemasonry did not originally appear as a structure meant to support disbelief. It became corrupted over time. For instance, there is the Ahi community, it is reminiscent of freemasonry. Most mystical sects are reminiscent of freemasonry as well. I mean as a method, as a system they strongly resemble it. Freemasonry is a corrupted form of a divine system.

THE INTERPRETER: Now Master, We have read about the Kabbalah in your books. The Sephiroth, the Zohar, various charts, affecting the course of destiny..

ADNAN OKTAR: No, they cannot affect that [destiny].

THE INTERPRETER: Well, that is what they claim. That they have various secret powers and secrets they do not share, these secrets not being ordinary, innocent ones.

ADNAN OKTAR: It is true that they know various future events in the Kabbalah. But the prophets reveal these, and they take information revealed by the prophets. For example, freemasonry knows of the coming of the Mahdi. That exists in their stone inscriptions. The date 2012 even appears. 2012 also appears in Judaic sources, and in Kab.alistic sources. The date 2012 is explicitly set out in Kabbalistic sources. It is mentioned that the Mahdi will appear in Istanbul, it is stated as Rome. It says to seek him at the gates of Rome. Such information appears in the Zohar and the Kabbalah. It comprehensively describes the activities of the Mahdi, that he will prevail across the world. But they have no power to alter destiny. They have the power to shape events. For instance within the history of 3000 -4000 years, they have a 1000-year plan, 100-year plan. They make a plan as to how they can influence the course of history. But we cannot regard that as changing destiny. Indeed Allah makes them instrumental for the occurrences that will happen in the future anyway.

THE INTERPRETER: In the philosophy of the Kabbalah, is there a belief in a single God? Is there a satanic dimension to it?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, it has a satanic dimension, because it has been corrupted. But it was not initially like that. It had been corrupted later on and became like this when it subsequently passed into the hands of atheists and the irreligious. For example, there is love and affection and compassion in Islam. But in the hands of extremists, it would be replaced by bloodshed, ignominy, tragedy, suffering and introversion, the elimination social justice, it would be replaced with selfishness and egoism. In that respect, the corruption in the execution of truth is something always seen. For instance Buddhism was at first a true faith. Buddha was a prophet, from what we can tell, but they later corrupted it and turned it into something completely wrong.

THE INTERPRETER: As far as we know, we think that the Kabbalah lies at the root of the philosophy of international Zionism.


THE INTERPRETER:  here is also Kabbalistic thinking in that. At the end of the day, they have targets within this ideological framework that are by no means innocent ones. And we think that the Kabbalah represents the infrastructure of this. I am saying what I have drawn from your books.

ADNAN OKTAR: The global leader of the Kabbalists was my guest here recently. How long did they stay?

OKTAR BABUNA: Three or four days.

ADNAN OKTAR: They stayed three or four days and talked with me. They brought me a Torah dating back 100 years or so. As a gift.

THE INTERPRETER: What was the name? He is asking me for a name.

ADNAN OKTAR: What was his name?

OKTAR BABUNA: Yehuda Berg.


THE INTERPRETER: He had asked his name.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yehuda Berg, yes. I talked with him and could tell from his language that he will serve the way of the Mahdi. But if you read their philosophy it is very complicated and seems to have nothing to do with Islam. But I saw that within that system they will serve Islam and the way of the Mahdi and are doing so even now. It is child's play for a Muslim to put an end to the service to disbelief and satan. It is very easy, one just has to use one's intelligence and conscience. Disbelief does not have such a great, irresistible force. Allah tells us in a verse that satan has no such power, that he has no power over true and pure believers. He says that he only has power over those who submit to satan. It [the satan] has a compelling power over them. But he has no power to compel Muslims to do anything. I , for instance, am in contact with Yehuda Berg, and there are world-famous Kabbalists, as you know..



THE INTERPRETER: Kabbalists like Madonna..

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, yes.. There is a question of our having talks with them. We are thinking of having a meeting in Istanbul. But even if they have other ideas, there is still a project involving serving Istanbul.

THE INTERPRETER: So, I have read this in The New Masonic Order, that they have been involved in many not-so-innocent activities in the course of world history

ADNAN OKTAR: That is true.

THE INTERPRETER:  and in many things that have taken place in various countries.

ADNAN OKTAR: That is true.

THE INTERPRETER: I mean, what has changed today so that you say that believers in the Kabbalah philosophy have now come to serve Islam? That is what I am curious about.

ADNAN OKTAR: Bringing them to serve Islam is one thing, and their coming to that state of their own accord is another. I do not say they have just come to that state. They have been brought to it. Insha'Allah. That is very important. For example, just like the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) using the masons in those days, putting them to use, and the satans as well. Didn't he use them? There is an explicit verse about that in the Qur'an. It even says he chained satans together and put them to work. Why should someone who can use satans not also make use of masons? Or Kabbalists? The same method.

THE INTERPRETER: We see that in the Torah, which has been distorted, in the way it is set out in the Talmud, that there is a belief in Jews being a superior race and that other people are of another race referred to as goyim who serve them, and that they[the Jews] will establish a global kingdom.  And by that they will rule the world after the coming of the Messiah, the Messiah they are awaiting.

ADNAN OKTAR: A superior nation.

THE INTERPRETER: And from what we can tell, the Kabbalah lies at the basis of these Jewish and Zionist ideas. There is a series of ideas that have come down from ancient Egypt.

ADNAN OKTAR: In the same way, the Jews are strongly opposed to the Kabbalists. They begged me not to talk to them. They asked me not to meet them, saying they were opposed to Judaism and wanted to corrupt their faith. But I talked to them nonetheless. And I see they will be very useful to Islam. We are making them useful. It is all a question of being able to give direction. For instance, satan is normally harmful. But what does the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) do? He uses satans for Islam and the Qur'an, or for whatever the holy book is in those times. That is what is important. A Muslim must believe that all power is with Allah. The Kabbalist is a poor servant of Allah. The Kabbalist has no such power. Whatever is ordained, that is what Allah has decreed in the Lawh-i Mahfuz (The Preserved Tablet). Nobody can step outside what is written in Lawh-i Mahfuz, no matter how much they strive, they can never step outside that destiny. For example, the current power on earth is the way of the Mahdi. It is the way of the Mahdi that is reigning. There is the reign of Hazrat Khidr and the Mahdi, and Jesus the Messiah (pbuh). So the Kabbalists can do nothing about that. Hazrat Khidr also used masons. As you know, Hazrat Khidr was himself a master stonemason, and someone who used masons. The masons were at his command, but he was never under the command of the masons. The Prophet Solomon (pbuh) had satans at his command, and masons, but he was never under the command of masons. The whole question is one of having faith. If you are intelligent and have faith they will all be at your command and they will have no effect on you.

THE INTERPRETER: In other words, connected with these masons, the Kabbalah, Freemasonry, and the Knights Templar, at the end of the day, in their activities, we have not seen anything positive in this process that has come down to the present day. If we could talk about that historic process..

ADNAN OKTAR: I am also talking with leading masters from the Knights Templar at the moment. Some of the masters I talk with have become heads of their own lodges.

OKTAR BABUNA: One is the senior head.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes one is the most senior, he has become the most senior leader, the head of all the freemasons. The Templars I have spoken to have also become the leader of all the Templars in the world.

THE INTERPRETER: Well Master, isn't it what we know; once they reach the 33rd degree, a freemason would be bereft of their belief in Allah and become the most senior people serving Zionist ideology..

ADNAN OKTAR: One degree of freemasonry talks about Islam.

THE INTERPRETER: Okay, it is generally agreed that they have belief in the beginning, at the outset, this is actually what they want in the first steps. But as they rise in rank, and as I've said we have learned this from your books and I am now asking you questions with what I have learnt from you. I mean various things gradually become left behind as the process develops, as the rank among them increases. And when they come to the highest rank, the 33rd degree, we think that they become people who adopt a totally different belief, people who have fixed on their own various satanic aims. And this is what we have read.

ADNAN OKTAR: That is true, that is how it has been this far. But things have now changed. The latest position is highly significant. For example, the Templars I have spoken to, believe in reincarnation, so they are open to all faiths, Christianity, Judaism, Islam. I mean they believe that they hold a belief over all faiths But when the matter is discussed and explained properly, they become convinced that Islam is the true faith. And that happened. They have performed their prayers together  in the Haghia Sofia Mosque.

OKTAR BABUNA: Yes, in the small Haghia Sofia Mosque.

ADNAN OKTAR: We have videotaped their performing prayers. They have prayed in public, in front of everyone's eyes and they speak with joy of Allah and the Qur'an. They all read the Qur'an day and night. In other words, education is highly important. As if the polytheists of Mecca in the time of our Prophet (saas) were more deficient than the masons. They were at least as bad. I mean, there is no difference between a Buddhist and a mason, or a polytheist and a pagan. There is no major difference. Their common characteristic is lack of belief. But that lack of belief can be put right if they are told honestly and rationally about the miracles of our Prophet (saas) and the miracles of the Qur'an. For example, the current worldwide leader of all the Templars is a huge admirer of Islam. They spoke here, and even wondered among themselves what their families would do if they were to announce their acceptance of Islam. They will be coming back in the days ahead. We were the first people in the history of the world to talk about the Qur'an in masonic lodges. We spoke about Allah and the Qur'an and the invalidity of Darwinism. We entered the grand lodge in America, where nobody else had ever been. Somewhere that nobody can go to. We entered units in the U.S. Army that nobody had ever been allowed into and told the officers there how the Qur'an is the truth. How Islam is the true faith and of the invalidity of Darwinism..

OKTAR BABUNA: Even on an air base, in San Antonio, Texas ..

ADNAN OKTAR: On air base, they gave me a medal on the air base. The whole thing is a question of approach. I treat everyone with affection, whether they be Jewish, Christian, atheist or whatever, and I am sure in my faith. I know I will have an impact. See how Darwinists flee at the sight of me! They bring forth these poor beings. They had brought forth one poor fellow today on Beyaz TV. He had already lost hands down and had no idea about Darwinism. What virtue is that? I mean, one can stand up and say one will deal with a cat, I mean that is just a cat and anyone can deal with it. But if one cannot stand up and say he will deal with a lion. And we are that lion in their eyes. They are unable to stand up to us. We will tear them apart in a moment, they would simply become disintegrated. So they produce ignorant people and say look how we have been unable to argue against Darwinists. But bring forth the lion against then and then see who defeats whom. Yes..

THE INTERPRETER: In that case, let us discuss the historic process. Instead of today.

ADNAN OKTAR: Look, the final stage that freemasonry will now come to is to bind itself to the Mahdi. They have been awaiting Adonai for thousands of years; the leader of the masons, Adon. They say that Adon will return within the historic process. Since it will be finished with the Adon, in other words, Adonia. They call him both Adon and Adonai.  Freemasonry is coming to an end. In other words with the appearance of Mahdi, freemasonry will come to an end. That is the important thing. It will disappear in history. When I speak with masons, they regard Jesus the Messiah as a grand master. In other words, according to their beliefs, he is a very, very senior ranking mason. They also believe that Jesus the Messiah will return, and in the coming of the Mahdi. They regard the Mahdi too as one of their grand masters. They do not say that they will not follow the Mahdi..

THE INTERPRETER: Then let me phrase it this way Master; there is a group that has survived for thousands of years, that has managed to conceal itself very successfully in European and different countries of the world, that is highly organized against those forces that would oppose it, so what has happened today that they left behind all that process of thousand years and start a process serving Islam? Could you explain that a bit more Master?

ADNAN OKTAR:  Now, let us go back to the time of the Prophet Moses (pbuh). What was needed for the Prophet Moses (pbuh) to appear? What did the prophet need in order to become the Prophet Moses (pbuh)? There is the need for the Pharaoh. And Pharaoh cannot come about directly. Various people need to produce Pharaoh, organize the process. In other words, there have to be people who will place him on the stage of history and provide support. Let me say just that, and you understand the rest. For example, there has to be a power such as Nimrod opposed to the Prophet Abraham (pbuh) in order for the Prophet Abraham (pbuh) to appear. Nimrod was a mason. Go to the ruins of Nimrod and it is full of masonic symbols. Nimrod was a master mason. But the Prophet Abraham (pbuh) overcame him. All the pharaohs were master masons. The whole system was one based on serving freemasonry. But they were vanquished in the face of the Prophet Moses (pbuh).

THE INTERPRETER: The freemasonry we are familiar with began with the master Hiram, with the Temple of Solomon, during the construction of that. That is how we read so far. In terms of the forms of organization, the master Hiram established a special team of nine people. After the death of Hiram they took an oath and spread across the world, they dedicated themselves to preserving this thing of Hiram's until the end of the world.

ADNAN OKTAR: According to masonic sources, they also regard freemasonry as going back to the time of the Prophet Adam (pbuh). Freemasonry is very ancient.

THE INTERPRETER: At the end of the day, freemasonry is about a master stone mason, isn't it?

ADNAN OKTAR: A master stone mason.

THE INTERPRETER: This is a process that began with the master Hiram building the Temple of Solomon. That is what we have always read, which is why I am asking.

ADNAN OKTAR: That is an erroneous information. That is the official account. The unofficial account is much, much older. Look, I am speaking of the time of the Prophet Abraham (pbuh). Freemasonry was in existence at the time of the Prophet Abraham (pbuh).. It was around in ancient Sumerian times. There are those photographs of the stone reliefs, have them send those to me. There is a bearded figure in masonic garb. A stone relief. That is something people are unaware of. That is very old. It dates back some 3000 years. Bring it here so I can see it.

Yes, for instance the Zohar, the essential work of Kabbalah, the esoteric interpretation of Judaism. Look, the Zohar says "for the descent of Jacob" in other words descent of Israel; and the Mahdi will be from the line of Israel. In other words, he is descended from the Prophet David (pbuh). "It cites the Judaic year 5760 as the beginning of salvation. That corresponds to the time between 11 September 1999 and 29 September 2000." Some Jews think of 1999 as the time of global reign. A large meeting was held on the subject in Istanbul. I had better not say in which district. It was held on the day of the great Istanbul earthquake. By that, that meeting was cancelled on that day; I mean there were a lot of people who were supposed to attend to that meeting.. They would all remember it now that we mention it. "The coming of the King Messiah", the Mahdi, "began in the Judaic year 5766, Rosh Hoshana, or 3 October 2005. That refers to 2005-2006. The Judaic year when the King Messiah will spur the whole world into action is given as 5773, and that refers to the years 2012-2013." I mean this year is the year that great things will happen.

THE INTERPRETER: Master, the Messiah awaited by the Jews, is he not a Messiah from the Jewish line of descent?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, he will be from the line of the Prophet David (pbuh). Hazrat Ali (ra) is also descended from the line of the Prophet David. All prophets are, our Prophet (saas) is also descended from the prophets. He is from the line of the Prophet Abraham (pbuh).

THE INTERPRETER: At the end of the day, since our Prophet (saas)  was not a Jew, since he was not from a Jewish line of descent, they did not regard him as a prophet. They opposed him. The same with the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). Because they were expecting a prophet from their own line. They rejected the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) when he appeared, and they rejected the Prophet Mohammed (saas) as well.

ADNAN OKTAR: They have a tradition of martyring prophets. That is what they do..

INTERPRETER: They are expecting a Messiah of Jewish origins. That is something they have in common with the evangelicals. They are also awaiting such a Messiah.

ADNAN OKTAR: True, from the line of Abraham.

INTERPRETER: We all know that a number of things have to happen in order to speed up the coming of the Messiah. In particular, there has to be severe disorder in the Middle East and wars have to break out. The Zionist structure in Israel and the evangelicals in America are working together on this.

ADNAN OKTAR: And we are striving to stop this war. America would normally be considering an operation against Iran. Notice how America has surrounded Iran with air bases. U.S. air forces has surrounded Iran like a noose. They are ready for that, there is not an unprepared structure there. Consequently an attack from Israel would simultaneously be supported by an American attack. This is a very grave risk. We have for long been striving to prevent this. I concentrate on it because it is so important. I will be receiving guests in the next few days and we will be discussing it with them as well.

INTERPRETER: That is what underlies their belief. I mean eventually this is a matter of belief and these people have faith in it and there is a group trying to bring it about..

ADNAN OKTAR: But look, I have just said something, you may have missed it. Hazrat Ali is also descended from the Prophet David (pbuh). And the line of the Prophet David (pbuh) means the line of Israel; the line of Jacob (pbuh). The Mahdi (pbuh) is from the same line, he is from the line of the Prophet David (pbuh). Since he is descended from Hazrat Ali(ra), he will also be descended from the Prophet David (pbuh). The community of the Mahdi in the End Times is the people of Israel mentioned in the Torah. That is the community described as establishing a global reign, as a superior and chosen people. The believers are the ones known as the People of Israel. Those who truly believe in the Qur'an as is due, those who have true faith and who are joyously devoted to Allah. Otherwise it is not in the sense of a genetic race. We can see this from careful examination of the Torah.

INTERPRETER: Alright Master, let us go through the historical process. There are some questions that our friends have and they will use the answers of those questions in their documentary. We began at the foundations of freemasonry. Let us continue with the Knights of the Temple. They came to Jerusalem, and let us say in the area of the Temple of Solomon, they saw various things while they were stationed there. There are various rumors about this. Some say they found the treasure of the Prophet Solomon. Some say they saw some symbols and some things left over from the Master Hiram, some secret knowledge from that time...

ADNAN OKTAR: That is true, they have.

INTERPRETER: They saw Kabbalistic secrets and things like that and underwent a sudden change. Could you enlarge on that process, Master? What have they seen there? What happened? What changed and these people suddenly steered at a different direction?

ADNAN OKTAR: The Knights Templars do genuinely possess some sacred relics. We know they found some sacred relics. As a matter of fact, that is what their job is. This is one of their main duties. To preserve and conceal holy relics, things that have come down from ancient times, important documents. I mean, the Knights of the Temple would not take them and put them in a museum. They would hide them specially. They have documents and knowledge from the time of the Prophet Solomon (pbuh). I mean they tell me those when I speak with them. Some relics and documents that would completely stun people are still being found by them. They are still continuing with their investigations.

INTERPRETER: That is because we think they are still carrying out excavations; they are still researching and investigating.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, they are looking for the Ark of the Covenant, that is the reason. It is the Mahdi (pbuh) who will discover the Ark of the Covenant. That appears in the hadiths, as you know. It is mentioned in the hadiths that he will find part of holy relics in Lake Tiberias and some in the mountains of Sham, and some in Hayat and Iskenderun. That is the hadith of our Prophet (saas). With the finding of the Ark of the Covenant, freemasonry will be completely bound to the Mahdi. The hadiths say that a great many Jews will come to believe. The masons believe that the world leader will appear from Istanbul. That is what their own reference sources say. Sources dating back 1000 years or so.

OKTAR BABUNA: You mentioned the Mayan priests.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, look at this statue here. Put it here, come a bit closer. Does our friend take this now? Is the view clear there?

CAMERAMAN: It can be a bit closer.

ADNAN OKTAR: Okay.. Look, this is a document left over from Mayan times, a statue and inscription. Look, what he wears here is a masonic apron. That is the eye the masons use. Notice that this person has a beard. But the Mayans do not grow beards. The Mayans have no beards as a racial feature. They claim that this is a statue of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) they believe will come in the End Times. He has a skull cap of the kind used by the Sufis, I mean something like a turban. Look, there is the bear and the masonic eye. And the masonic apron, he wears a masonic apron. And there are masonic gloves on the hands. I am saying this to stress that freemasonry is very old indeed.

Look, these inscriptions say that this movement will start in 2012, that a single person will reign across the world.

OKTAR BABUNA: These are found in the Mayan ruins of Coba.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes. There are also pictures of the masonic square and compasses. Yes.. That is the tablet. On it, the date is explicitly given as 2012. They describe the Mahdi we speak of in the hadiths in a more roundabout way. They say he will enjoy a global reign. One person will reign over the world.

They expect a highly wise and blessed individual. "The stone speaks of a cycle beginning on 11 August 3114, BC and that will end on 21 December 2012. This information about 2012 was found around Nohoch Mul, the second highest of all the Mayan pyramids in Mexico. According to the Mayan calendar, 21 December 2012 is expressed as 13 Baktun, 0 Katun, 0 Tun, 0 Uinal and 0 Kin. Again according to that calendar, 1,872,000 days will go by from the beginning of the Mayan age, and that date indicates the dawning of a New Age. In these inscriptions, with the end of the Long Mayan cycle, Mayan priests speak of an end of an age of persecution and violence, the persecution and violence of the way of the dajjal, in other words. And it says this will indicate the beginning of a new "Golden Age" that will follow." It refers to the Golden Age. What is the way of the Mahdi we have been talking about for years? The Golden Age. We say that the dajjal will appear first, and then the Mahdi. They describe them both, too. "In other words, they believe that this year, the year 2012, represents the beginning of the transition to the Golden Age." The masons also believe that.

INTERPRETER: Our friend has a question about 2012. He is asking about the first corrupt movements appearing in 2012 and some people doing something about it.

ADNAN OKTAR: This is the way of the Mahdi taking the offensive against the way of the anti-christ. The only thing we are worried about is widespread sudden bombing of Iran by Israel and America. There is a risk of that. And in the event of such an attack, Iran's attack, in a state of panic and as a reflex defense action, to that radar base in Malatya in Turkey is also a matter of discussion. That is because attacks against foreign countries can now be picked up from Malatya. The radar system has been set up. But if there is an attack on Iran, they may attack those facilities in Malatya, out of panic, as a sudden reflex. Then Turkey may attempt to defend itself. And that could lead to grave disorder, may Allah forbid. That is why I am constantly talking to Jews and rabbis and leading figures. This is the question they are always asking me. They even gave an example. They say, we have a neighbor. He says he is going to commit murder, to kill someone. He says he is armed, that he bought weapons and buried them. But when the mood takes me, I will dig them up and kill you they say. They say, that is the position we are in. Now what should we do? I said Iran would not do such a thing. She would beware of that.  I said such a thing is out of the question. But they are in a constant state of tension because of it. Iran's worst mistake is their belief in the invisible Mahdi. And our Shia brothers' worst mistake is this belief in the invisible Mahdi. Even if he were invisible but compassionate, then this would still be acceptable, but even in the Sunni belief there is also the idea that the Mahdi will kill three-quarters of the world, that he will shed rivers of blood, that there will be blood up to the horses' necks. This really alarms the Jews. It also alarms the evangelicals. And according to their biblical beliefs this had prepared the ground for an attack. But there will be no bloodshed in the way of the Mahdi. The sleeping man will not be woken up. People need to be told this. Iran needs to emphasize it very well. It is very important to speak of a visible Mahdi, not an invisible one. Sunni belief refers to a visible Mahdi who will appear, born to a mother and a father. He will be very loving and compassionate. He will not waken the sleeper, nor shed blood and will not even permit people's noses to bleed. He will bring about complete global peace. But apart from that, danger is at the gate.

INTERPRETER: Zionist ideology owes its own existence to the idea of the promised land.


INTERPRETER: And it wants to achieve this. It has numerous objectives, such as the reconstruction of the Temple of Solomon, the Jews' all coming together in Israel and Jerusalem being declared as the capital city. This is the basic belief of such an objective. How can there be a common foundation with such aims? This lies at the root of these people's belief.

ADNAN OKTAR: I asked them about this. I have talked to them about this. I asked if the state is supreme, or the King Messiah. I asked; "Do you think that the Israeli state would be superior than the King Messiah?"  They said, "no, for us the King Messiah is the state personified." Also according to us the Mahdi is the King Messiah. They [Jews] also said that the person you call the Mahdi is who we know as the King Messiah. When the Mahdi appears, Israel will be completely liberated. The Mahdi will govern them with the Torah. There is a hadith of our Prophet (saas) about that. And there will be a time of great ease for them. The walls will be torn down. They will spread all over those promised lands. They will live in peace and comfort. The Mahdi will guarantee their security. They will follow the Mahdi. So the promise in the Torah will be made good. They have no doubt about that. But they want it to happen at once; that is all. They are very worried by this belief in the invisible Mahdi. They believe in the coming of a visible, recognized Mahdi, a loving Mahdi, the King Messiah. They established the Sanhedrin assembly, as you know. That happened for the first time in thousands of years. That is a sign of the coming of the Mahdi. They will ask the Sanhedrin assembly whether they recognize the Mahdi.

INTERPRETER: So under these circumstances, Judaism will get into a conflict with 1000 years of their belief.

ADNAN OKTAR: 3000 years.

INTERPRETER: Let's say thousands of years, this is in conflict with their traditional belief. I mean this will be the exact opposite of their beliefs.

ADNAN OKTAR: It is in perfect agreement with their belief. They will go along with true belief and abandon the false.

INTERPRETER: For us there is only one truth: Islam and the Qur'an. So you mean that everyone will go down that road and follow Islam and th e Qur'an.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, they will become Mohammedan Jews, while we are direct Mohammedans. Christians will be Mohammedan Christians. That is the whole matter. We will not turn them away from the Prophet Jesus (pbuh), they will love him even more. We will not turn them away from Moses (pbuh), they will love him even more. We will not turn them away from the Torah. We will ensure they are even more devoted to the Torah, the true Torah.

INTERPRETER: Also in the Ahl-al Sunnah belief, the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) and that a Golden Age will be experienced, is a fact certified with the hadiths. We know this and accept this and then insha'Allah, Muslims will reign across the world. But when we look at contemporary global politics, international Zionism is really working very well. With its various branches, they dominate the global economy; they dominate science and various other sectors. They dominate politics and are working hard for their own interests. Is the thing you have in mind possible in the near future Master? As I say, they are working really hard for their own ambitions.

ADNAN OKTAR: They are working, but Israel, the state of Israel, is not as powerful as people think.

INTERPRETER: One must not regard Israel as being Israel alone. As I have already said, Israel is international. America is also Israel.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, that is true, yes, the Jews there [in U.S.] are wealthy and stronger. But that is how Allah has ordained history. They also have to go along with the course of history. The whole issue, the key problem here is, the reason why there is no Islamic Union now is, the reason of the delay in the coming of the Mahdi is Iran's belief in this invisible Mahdi. When that is done away with, when they hold the same views as Sunnis, when they believe in a visible Mahdi, Israel will have no more objection.

Notice how this statue has masons' gloves, a masonic apron, compasses, a masonic scarf and a beard.

INTERPRETER: He is asking about secret Jews and the conversos.

ADNAN OKTAR: Secret Jews.

INTERPRETER: Crypto-Jews and conversos, Sabbateanists...

ADNAN OKTAR: Actually, to say the truth, I mean if we are to state the fact honestly there is no such organization. I mean there are Jews by race, and they watch out for and protect one another; but there is no such belief, no such religious organization [as crypto-Jews]. If there were, they could not hide from our enquiries and those of the state. It would definitely be seen. Because we enter their meeting and their homes and everywhere. We have all kinds of means. They have no such belief system. There may have been an organization set up by admirers of Sabbatai Zevi at the beginning, in Ottoman times, but that gradually faded away. It failed to survive as a powerful tradition. But Judaism survives because it is based on the Torah, and that will continue to do so. They will follow the true Torah in the time of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) as well. Our Prophet (saas) states this explicitly in the hadiths. He says that his descendant, the Mahdi, will govern Jews with the original of the Torah and Christians with the original of the Injil. But a visible Mahdi, not an invisible one. A Mahdi born to a mother and a father.

INTERPRETER: Yes, let me continue with our friend's questions. What happened to the Knights Templar when they went to Europe and fell out with the administrations there? They were suddenly banned and forced to go underground.

ADNAN OKTAR: There is a bigotry in Christianity. Christian bigotry is well known. Someone is either a Catholic or nothing, they would take the light out of their days. It was the same with Protestant. One is either a Protestant, or nothing. Their bigotry was very harsh. And what is more, they do not listen to Muslims or Buddhists. They were very harsh toward everyone. So they treated the masons very harshly as well. They also treated the Knights Templar very harshly. So these went underground. There is nothing surprising about that. But they can act much easier now, since there is liberty and democracy. That is the whole issue.

INTERPRETER: We have read many different things from your books, that is why. We have read things that are by no means innocent. That is why I am asking these things.

ADNAN OKTAR: Everything I am saying here is true. The Knights Templar may have done very wrong things in their time. I do not deny that. The masons also did very wrong things in their day. They had meetings where they summon satan and the djinn; they did very perverse things. But their satanic powers have been broken now, in this last period of time, in the time of the Mahdi. This is very important. Their satanic aspects have been broken. This is now the age when satan has been placed in chains. Like the time of the Prophet Solomon (pbuh). Our Prophet (saas) tells us that his descendant, the Mahdi, will rule the world as it was in the time of Dhu'lQarnayn and Solomon (pbuh). There will also be Nimrod and Nebuchadnezzar. Our Prophet (saas) says that five people will rule the world. He says there are kafir [unbelievers] and these are Nimrod and Nebuchadnezzar. While the believers are Solomon and Dhu'lQarnayn (pbuh), he says. He says the fifth person to reign is the Mahdi, one of his descendants. We are now in that time.  

INTERPRETER: Alright Master,  again in Europe, during the Renaissance and the Reformation; for example, the establishment of the Protestant Church -those people who subscribed to Cabbalist philosophy, for instance Erasmus, and the people influenced by them such as Martin Luther, and the Protestant sect that emerged and was reconciled with Judaism, these people who emerged from inside Christianity.. Could you tell us something about that process?

ADNAN OKTAR: Protestants are by no means welcomed to the Jews; because Protestants represent the greatest threat to them. The Protestants say that all Jews will die, with the exception of 120,000 of them. This is, of course, terrifying for the Jews. Why should a Jew advocate such a system? I mean, 120,000 Jews out of millions is a tiny number. The Protestants say they will all be slaughtered apart from 120,000. And they say they will do that themselves. They say they will first collect them all in Israel, as if to make things easier. Then Jesus the Messiah will come, they say, and slaughter them all. Who they are really awaiting for is the dajjal (anti-christ), because what is the guilt of these millions of Jews who are totally inoffensive. On the contrary, by means of  the Mahdi the Jews will come to have faith in the End Times and will become Muslims. There is a hadith about that. A great many will come to faith. We trust the hadiths of our Prophet (saas), and we act accordingly. That is enough for this section of the documentary. Let this be enough for today. Then we can carry on later. Insha'Allah.

2012-04-26 01:04:53

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